Affordable digital RF

joey

Established
Local time
11:35 PM
Joined
Sep 16, 2006
Messages
84
Can we expect to get more digital RF cameras in the near future? Epson R-D1 and now Leica 8M will be available for sale. These cameras are not affordable by an average household in the USA and Western Europe imho. Will Canon, Nikon or any known digital camera makers release a digital RF under $1000US? Or, the market for these cameras is too small, and if manufactured, the RF cameras will be considered niche products?
 
I doubt it. RF cameras are inherently expensive to make (the rangefinder mechanism requires a high degree of precision and a certain amount of hand calibration) and appeal to only a small part of the user spectrum, meaning that economies of scale aren't possible the way they are with mass-market SLRs.

I suspect that the Cosina Bessas represent the least expensive film RFs that can meet the expectations of current RF users; getting any more cost out of them would involve cheapening the product in ways that buyers would find unacceptable.

The Epson R-D 1 was a digital RF using a rather conservative design and Bessa RF technology, making it probably the least expensive way to generate a digital RF camera. It was a good camera, but certainly not a runaway success that would have spurred imitators to join the marketplace and drive down prices through competition.

Also, many observers still complained that it was too expensive, while others criticized it for lacking assembly quality or more advanced features (which would have pushed up its cost further.) This shows that Epson's chosen market position put it between a rock and a hard place: Anything it could have done to enhance perceived quality or features would have driven up the price further, increasing price-driven sales resistance; anything it could have done to lower the price would have required "de-contenting" the camera, increasing quality-and-feature-driven sales resistance.

Basically, they had chosen to target their camera in a part of the market where there isn't a lot of "white space" (room for new product introductions) and the amount of white space that WAS available wasn't big enough to allow the kind of high volume that would have made economy of scale possible. So while I don't consider the R-D 1 a failure, I also think any sensible camera manufacter would see that it also didn't point the way toward a growth opportunity.

I suspect Leica is going to be more successful with the M8 precisely because they recognize that the RF camera market is a niche market, not a potential high-volume market, and their manufacturing process is set up to work for niche-market products.

It's a bit like building cars. If you're going to build a high-volume sedan or SUV, it's prohibitively expensive to assemble it by hand and much more practical and profitable to invest in an automated assembly line. On the other hand, if you're trying to build a low-volume exotic sports car, you'll never sell enough of them to pay off assembly tooling; it's actually more cost-efficient to have it put together by craftsmen in a relatively simple plant. You have to pick the business model that suits the market potential of your product.
 
"Affordable" is probably open to interpretation. I've seen people really taken to task over calling something "affordable" when it darned well wasn't to a lot of people.

The history of RF cameras isn't promising. Other than something like the iconic "brick", most of them didn't start out cheap. I remember when I was in high school (about 1954) I had a Montgomery Ward photo catalog with a Contax III at $444.00. In those days, that was probably a couple of months' pay for a lot of people.

In any case, the good ones run up there a ways. There was once (around World War II) a Kodak 35mm called Ektra that was intended to compete with the German makes. See if you can look one up on Evil-bay. They are nearly priceless now, and probably don't work too well. Like the notorious Contax shutters, the Ektra had its foibles. It wasn't in production very long. So all in all, a reasonably-priced RF may be as much a debate about "reasonable" as about the camera itself.
 
dlw's comments about car production ring true. Have you looked at the price of a new R-R lately? Try about $375,000. There's a German make called Maybach (produced by Mercedes) that is in the same playing field.

BTW, I think the R-R's are made in Germany now, too. BMW or somebody pretty much bought them out. But they're all a bit rich for my blood. I just bought a new Camry three weeks ago. Should last a while.
 
I'd like to think that Zeiss will do a digital Ikon at some point. If not, I might pick up a used M8 at some point.

Until then I'll stick with my CL, A-1 SLR and Sony DSC-V3 digicam.
 
There will probably be an affordable digital back solution for medium format SLRs before there will even be an affordable digital RF.

Clarence
 
Al Patterson said:
I'd like to think that Zeiss will do a digital Ikon at some point. If not, I might pick up a used M8 at some point.
Entirely possible. Maybe also Leica will license Panasonic to make a "down-market" M8.
 
thanatos said:
Is there scope for a mass market digital back with adaptable fixings for different RFs?

I don't think that's even technically feasible, since 35mm-based RF cameras aren't designed for interchangeable backs to begin with. You'd need to take a jeweler's saw to your camera and remove part of the chassis to make room to mount the back in the correct position. Probably very few users would like that!
 
peter_n said:
Entirely possible. Maybe also Leica will license Panasonic to make a "down-market" M8.

Even a "down-market" M8 would still be quite expensive because of the costly precision RF mechanism. Do the things you'd need to do to "decontent" an M8 and you'd wind up with an Epson R-D 1... which, you'll recall, many people still felt was too expensive.
 
Well, as much as the affordable point. Though I paid 2500 euro for my R-D1 and find it a stiff price, compared to what I'd spend in a year on colour film and developing alone it made sense to me to go digital. The R-D1 paid itself back in about 14 months (shooting about 1 roll a day over a year, costing me 3 euro to buy it and 3 euro to have it developed). And it saved me an enormous amount of time scanning the negatives, leaving time to spend with my wife and daughter, focus more on my photography, put time and effort in some goals I've set myself, etc. All in all, though it was a big chunk of money at once, it's now saving me money and let me spend my time more wisely and effectively. I'd say the R-D1 is affordable if you look at the gains instead of just at the amount of money involved.
 
Well if we cannot get a RF since it will be too expensive, could we perhaps have a manual camera with fixed 35mm lens, traditional controls, good brightline viiewfinder built in, fast handling, raw capture, excellent low light performance and small form factor? Please?

Scale focusing is OK for me, and it will not be a major problem since we will not get a fullframe sensor anyway.

/Håkan
 
Back
Top Bottom