After all these years...an M on the horizon

[venchka]

I'm about to go look at a trio of Leica M bodies: M3. M5 and M4-P. Price range: $795, $829 and $795. I won't say which is which just yet. I feel the Force is finally about to overwhelm me. 😀

Y'all tell me what I need to know about these 3 bodies.

Then tell me which AFFORDABLE Leica M lens I should attach to said body of choice. I'll give you a hint: I own LTM lenses in 35, 50, 75 & 135mm. Which lens will impart the most "glow for the buck?"

Obviously I will be in the market for a Leitz LTM to M adapter.

Y'all have fun!

 

[doubs43]

IMO, you can't go wrong with any of them if all are in the same condition. I wish I were in a position to make that choice. I just bought an M3 on ebay and I'm waiting for delivery. It's my first M and it's from the second run of M3 bodies so it's an early one without the frame selector lever. It's supposed to be in excellent condition but I won't know for certain until it arrives. Some think that the later M3's are the best of all M's but I honestly don't know.

Walker

 

[Kim Coxon]

If you want to add an M4 to the shortlist in that price bracket there is one in the "new" classified's. 😉

Kim

 

[venchka]

I'm back from the shop. Here's the short version:

M3, just back from DAG for a CLA, $829. Very early, double stroke, pretty rough pitting of chrome.

M5, 1348471, black, decent shape, meter working, rangefinder very good and bright, waiting to hear on $750 offer

M4-P, 1544843, black, best condition of the 3, waiting for answer on $800 offer.

I am leaning very hard toward the M5. The meter may be the deciding factor. On the other hand, I already own a 75mm lens and the M4-P is has that frameline.

I think that I have finally found a viewfinder I can use with my glasses in either the M5 or M4-P. Was it my imagination or is the M5 slightly easier to see with glasses? I know I can see the 50-75-90 & 135 frames with my glasses. The 35mm was useable but not perfect. I couldn't see the 28mm frame with my glasses, but I doubt I'll ever put a 28mm on either body.

Educate me about LTM to M adapters. Do I need one for each focal length lens I have? The would mean one each for 35mm, 50mm, 75mm & 135mm. Yikes!

I did a bit of reading here and elsewhere and I think my first M lens might very well be the 90mm/2.8 Elmarit. An early one even. Of course I've just missed a couple nice ones.

Spaeking of missing out. A really nice M5 and 50mm Summicron went for a tad over $1,000 last Sunday on eBay. :bang: Why didn't I get the affliction sooner, eh?

One final point. The shop had a Canadian 90mm/2 Summicron for $750. The lens seemed huge. Would the 90/2.8 be more appropriate? How do they compare optically? Sharpness/contrast/"glow" wise?

I'm off to ponder. Thanks for all the help.

 

[Dougg]

Educate me about LTM to M adapters. Do I need one for each focal length lens I have? The would mean one each for 35mm, 50mm, 75mm & 135mm. Yikes!

Yikes indeed; this can get a bit pricy. There are three adaptor "flavors", one for each viewfinder frame pair such as in an M6: 28/90, 35/135, and 50/75. The only difference in these three is the frameline set they automatically bring up in the viewfinder.

It's most convenient and most expensive to have one adapator for each lens, and just leave it on, essentially converting the lenses to bayonet mount. You could get by with two adaptors and switch them between your pairs of lenses that would use the same adaptor.

Further, not all brands of adaptor are equal; the cheapest tend to be too thick, throwing off the focus slightly at the infinity end. The better quality sold by Cameraquest should be good; mine have been, but some say you need the $100 Leica adaptors to assure precision. I would be leery of any adaptor that is chrome on both sides; I'd prefer one with evidence of a final machining cut with a brass face showing.

 

[jkelly]

The better quality sold by Cameraquest should be good; mine have been, but some say you need the $100 Leica adaptors to assure precision. I would be leery of any adaptor that is chrome on both sides; I'd prefer one with evidence of a final machining cut with a brass face showing.

I recently bought a Leitz 50mm adaptor on Ebay for $26. You don't have to pay $100 for these.

 

[sockeyed]

Of all those, I'd pick the M4-P, which is basically a meterless M6. While beautifully-built, the lack of framelines below 50mm on the M3 doesn't appeal, and the aesthetics of the M5 don't appeal either. $800 seems a little high for an M4-P, though. I think that you should be able to find one in good user condition for $700. They are often discounted because they are Canadian-made, not German. That's just silly.

Also, M6's in very good condition often go for less than $1000 these days. I saw a m6 TTL go for $925, BIN on eBay just last week. There's something to consider.

For an affordable Leitz lens, consider the early rigid Summicron 50. I have a chrome one from 1957 that I picked up for $50. Now, I wouldn't expect a repeat of that deal, but for $200 you should be able to find one in good condition without too much scuffing in the soft coatings. In my experience, these early 'crons have a nice glow.

 

[FrankS]

There is (or was if it sold) an M4-2 in RFF classifieds for $600.

 

[Kim Coxon]

The M4-2 is here at $600
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23630
My M4 is here at $825 (but I will do it for $800)
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost-classifieds/showproduct.php?product=107&cat=3

Kim

There is (or was if it sold) an M4-2 in RFF classifieds for $600.

 

[venchka]

Thanks, everyone.

I seem to be the guy who always misses the good deals.

As of yesterday, the M4-2 had a deal in progress. No word since.

Kim, I don't know what to think of your M4. I've never purchased a used camera with that kind of wear on it. Frankly, I've never purchased a used camera with bashed sheet metal like the M5 here in Houston. I guess I've been lucky with the 3 Canon RFs I've purchased over the years. Compared to the sub-$1,000 Leicas I'm seeing, none of my Canons look like they have ever been used.

What to do. What to do. Buy a beater and have money left over for a lens or two and use the heck out of it. Save up more money and buy a pristine body that I will be afraid to bang up. Option 3: Put my money into using the perfectly good equipment that is already paid for.

Pondering.

 

[sockeyed]

I wanted to buy a user M6, but I ended up finding a minty one for what I was willing to pay for a used one. It even has the plastic stuck to the bottom plate.

I feel funny using such a pristine camera: I kind of baby it, I wipe finger prints off of it, I blow the dust off of it. I kind of wish that it was in user condition so that I could toss it around and use it the way I use all my other bodies (use, not abuse, is the key).

 

[Alec]

Wayne, have you handled all three cameras? Then you must have a preference either for the M5 or for the 'standard' form factor. I used to have a M5 many years ago as that was the only affordable metered option; but my small hands call for the M3/2/4/6/7/P.

Same, you must know whether a TTL meter is important to your photography or not.

Voigtländer adapters are fine, and don't cost the earth. Start with one (35/135 or 50/75 depending on your 'favourite' lens), and figure out whether you use only your 'new' M (then you'll probably end up with one adapter per LTM lens) or not.

Don't buy anything pristine, it is collector territory. And if you are even ten times as careful as myself, it won't stay pristine anyway.

As for prices, look up items for sale here to evaluate price ranges, even if you prefer to finally purchase from your local shop.

Finally, about the 75mm frames, they are almost unusable anyway, and you can pretty much guesstimate your way with the 50mm frames (I used to with my M2).

If you are not sure, wait and lurk and ask till you are!

 

[venchka]

I wanted to buy a user M6, but I ended up finding a minty one for what I was willing to pay for a used one. It even has the plastic stuck to the bottom plate.

:bang: I don't want to hear it! 😉

Spent the day on the phone. No other cameras in Houston. Called around the country a bit. Found out one dealer shipped a decent M5 in my price range earlier in the week. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!

Sound advice everyone! Interesting thing about the M5. The meter function and display & shutter dial are almost exactly the same as my Canon EF from the same period. It all felt very natural.

Back to adapters: Assuming the M5 (or maybe an M4) land in my lap, is the following what I need? A 35/135 and a 50/90 LTM to M adapter?

I'm off to the piney woods of east Texas. If I get the new hard drive installed this weekend I'll check in.

Camera shop called. Seller wants $900 for his very average M4-P. I don't think so.

Y'all be good!

 

[Dougg]

Back to adapters: Assuming the M5 (or maybe an M4) land in my lap, is the following what I need? A 35/135 and a 50/90 LTM to M adapter?

Not quite... While 35 & 135 framelines come up together in the viewfinder, and thus call for the same adaptor, there is no 50/90 pair. It's 28/90 and 50/75. 🙂 Happy shopping!

 

[back alley]

you can spend 55 bucks for new cv made adapters at cq or the same amount for used leitz, less if you are lucky in your search.

if you like long lenses the m3 might be the way to go as it has the longest rf base.
the m3 is ideal for a 50/90 combo.
i intend on using mine for low light 50/1.2 work and general street shooting with the elmar 2.8

 

[venchka]

A deal is done

A deal is done

Bust a deal, face the wheel!

I've made a decision. Given my word. Funds and camera to be exchanged next week. Stay tuned for the exciting conclusion of "Wayne finally gets a Leica." Film at 11! 😎

In the meantime, I absolutely, positively need to buy 35mm and 50mm LTM to M adapters. PLEASE! Somebody come forth quickly!

Everything everyone said was a great help. I got a quick and dirty education in Leicaese. Thanks!

Later, y'all!

 

[MCTuomey]

Good luck with your new camera, whichever one you chose. There are no bad Leicas, only ones to different tastes. Contact Stephen Gandy at cameraquest.com for your adapters - that's your simplest path. Otherwise, get busy googling to find the leica-made versions.

Btw, you missed a deal on Kim's cameras ;-) (Couldn't resist, sorry.)

 

[Kim Coxon]

The M4 is still available if anyone wants it. 😉

Kim

Btw, you missed a deal on Kim's cameras ;-) (Couldn't resist, sorry.)

 

[back alley]

In the meantime, I absolutely, positively need to buy 35mm and 50mm LTM to M adapters. PLEASE! Somebody come forth quickly!


i have a leitz 135 adaptr which i believe also brings up the 35 fl. it does on the zi.

joe

 

[Kim Coxon]

I thought you were selling them not looking to buy. 😕

Kim

In the meantime, I absolutely, positively need to buy 35mm and 50mm LTM to M adapters. PLEASE! Somebody come forth quickly!


i have a leitz 135 adaptr which i believe also brings up the 35 fl. it does on the zi.

joe