carlb
Established
Apart from an XA many years ago I’ve never used a rangefinder, but while searching for Xmas suggestions to give to my wife I came across the Fedka site, and thought that one of the old Russian rangefinders would be a bit of fun.
It seems as if some of the Fed’s, Zorki’s etc can be a bit unreliable, so does anyone have any suggestions for a reliable, reasonably priced Russian rangefinder (& either a 35mm or 50mm lens) that a rangefinder novice might enjoy getting their feet wet with. On the other hand, are there any that should be avoided completely
Fedka seems reputable, so I would probably get it from there rather than take my chances on Ebay
It seems as if some of the Fed’s, Zorki’s etc can be a bit unreliable, so does anyone have any suggestions for a reliable, reasonably priced Russian rangefinder (& either a 35mm or 50mm lens) that a rangefinder novice might enjoy getting their feet wet with. On the other hand, are there any that should be avoided completely
Fedka seems reputable, so I would probably get it from there rather than take my chances on Ebay
pschauss
Well-known
My personal favorite is a Zorki 1 with a collapsable Industar-22 but the bottom loading and separate viewfinder and rangefinder windows may take some getting used to. I like the Zorki 1 because it is small enough to fit in my pocket and because loading the film from the bottom makes it relatively immune to light leaks.
If the bottom loading and separate windows are a problem for you, look for an early Kiev 4, 1960's vintage. Make sure that you buy from a reputable seller because some of these cameras had problems with light leaks.
As far a sellers are concerned, I have had good luck with alex-photo, kubanoid, and cupog.
If the bottom loading and separate windows are a problem for you, look for an early Kiev 4, 1960's vintage. Make sure that you buy from a reputable seller because some of these cameras had problems with light leaks.
As far a sellers are concerned, I have had good luck with alex-photo, kubanoid, and cupog.
Brian Legge
Veteran
As far as lenses go, if you don't need the compactness of a collapsible lens, the Jupiter 8 or Industar 61 are popular choices. I prefer the look and extra speed of the Jupiter 8 but most of these lenses in good condition would work well for you.
I think this largely depends on what you are looking for:
- Prefer a compact kit and able to deal with older sensibilities (split rangefinder/viewfinder, bottom loading, etc), look at the FED 1 or Zorki 1 with a collapsible lens (Industar 22, 50 or FED 50).
- Prefer a more familiar way of loading and don't mind some extra size? The Zorki 4/4k and the FED 2 are popular. I haven't used the Zorki myself so I will avoid comparisons. Each has its pros and cons though.
- Prefer something with a little more mass and size, don't care about lens compatibility with Leica and don't want to deal with the possibility of holes in the shutter curtain? Consider the Kiev 4a.
I haven't dealt with ebay sellers. I've purchased from people and from fedka.com. I've only picked up lenses from fedka but they've all been in great condition. At this point I'd probably pay the premium and buy from fedka unless I saw a deal here or on apug.org from someone I trusted.
I think this largely depends on what you are looking for:
- Prefer a compact kit and able to deal with older sensibilities (split rangefinder/viewfinder, bottom loading, etc), look at the FED 1 or Zorki 1 with a collapsible lens (Industar 22, 50 or FED 50).
- Prefer a more familiar way of loading and don't mind some extra size? The Zorki 4/4k and the FED 2 are popular. I haven't used the Zorki myself so I will avoid comparisons. Each has its pros and cons though.
- Prefer something with a little more mass and size, don't care about lens compatibility with Leica and don't want to deal with the possibility of holes in the shutter curtain? Consider the Kiev 4a.
I haven't dealt with ebay sellers. I've purchased from people and from fedka.com. I've only picked up lenses from fedka but they've all been in great condition. At this point I'd probably pay the premium and buy from fedka unless I saw a deal here or on apug.org from someone I trusted.
ZorkiKat
ЗоркийК&
+1 for the Zorki-1 or FED-1.
Consider the less 'popular' Zorki-5 or Zorki-6, as alternatives to the FED-2. Both are sleepers, and the Z-6 actually offer something which no other FSU rangefinder has: a hinged back. Nothing slides out or separates; even the spool is fixed, so loading is just like with any of the conventional equivalent non-FSU cameras.
The shutters, or the material used in them, is an issue with just about any camera. Pinholed fabric shutters are as much as an issue with FED or Zorki, as they are with Canon, Leica, or the early Nikons. The metal slats of the Kiev shutter may be burn-proof or immune from flaking or cracking, but the ribbons that pull them to and fro tend to break and can be - depending on where you are- more difficult to repair than the cloth focal plane shutters. A tiny pinhole, if the shutter cloth is still ok, can be easily patched, but a broken Kiev strap will need serious work.
Almost all, except for one which may be a frankenstein Contax, of my Kiev had their shutter ribbons break sooner or later after getting them. I've seen more than a few Kiev whose shutters broke after just one roll. But breaking ribbons are a non-issue to me anymore since I can repair them myself. A fresh silken ribbon in the Kiev will last quite long- the average estimate in an actively used camera is about 5-10 years.
Consider the less 'popular' Zorki-5 or Zorki-6, as alternatives to the FED-2. Both are sleepers, and the Z-6 actually offer something which no other FSU rangefinder has: a hinged back. Nothing slides out or separates; even the spool is fixed, so loading is just like with any of the conventional equivalent non-FSU cameras.
The shutters, or the material used in them, is an issue with just about any camera. Pinholed fabric shutters are as much as an issue with FED or Zorki, as they are with Canon, Leica, or the early Nikons. The metal slats of the Kiev shutter may be burn-proof or immune from flaking or cracking, but the ribbons that pull them to and fro tend to break and can be - depending on where you are- more difficult to repair than the cloth focal plane shutters. A tiny pinhole, if the shutter cloth is still ok, can be easily patched, but a broken Kiev strap will need serious work.
Almost all, except for one which may be a frankenstein Contax, of my Kiev had their shutter ribbons break sooner or later after getting them. I've seen more than a few Kiev whose shutters broke after just one roll. But breaking ribbons are a non-issue to me anymore since I can repair them myself. A fresh silken ribbon in the Kiev will last quite long- the average estimate in an actively used camera is about 5-10 years.
David Hughes
David Hughes
Hmmm, well, how can I put this, an early FED or Zorki will be fun, fun, fun but not necessarily of the sort you want and would your wife like it?
In a nutshell, FED 1's and Zorki 1's look good and can vary - it's the usual lottery when you buy anything mechanical that's 50 or 60 years old. So buy in advance and check it over or get from one of the better sellers like Oleg of OK Vintage Cameras. Or buy cheaply and for looks, then get Oleg to check and service it.
The important thing to remember is that you are going to be using a piece of 1920's or 30's history (that was when the design work started) and the culture shock might be a little too much to take. The view-finder is poky and blocked by some lenses and lens hoods, loading is difficult at first but soon mastered and the routine of using it will involve a lot of new routines that have to be learnt the hard way. Plus you'll need a meter and lens hood. And instructions for the old ones are difficult to get but several people have their version on the www and it's best to look at them.
Having said all that I love the things, it's nice getting back to our roots in 35mm film and the specification of them covers most situations except for flash (no flash sync available on the 1's). But they do perform well and just look great.
The next step up is the FED 2 and a Jupiter-8 which is a great piece of kit and just needs a Leica style lens hood and meter. Or you can baffle people with a Fed or Zorki 1 with a Jupiter-8 lens on it; that combination would be the answer to a 1930's photographers dream - meaning a Zeiss lens (clone) on a Leica body (clone).
But whatever you do, expect a few surprises at first, and persevere, and you'll be surprised. I hope that that will apply to your wife as well...
Regards, David
In a nutshell, FED 1's and Zorki 1's look good and can vary - it's the usual lottery when you buy anything mechanical that's 50 or 60 years old. So buy in advance and check it over or get from one of the better sellers like Oleg of OK Vintage Cameras. Or buy cheaply and for looks, then get Oleg to check and service it.
The important thing to remember is that you are going to be using a piece of 1920's or 30's history (that was when the design work started) and the culture shock might be a little too much to take. The view-finder is poky and blocked by some lenses and lens hoods, loading is difficult at first but soon mastered and the routine of using it will involve a lot of new routines that have to be learnt the hard way. Plus you'll need a meter and lens hood. And instructions for the old ones are difficult to get but several people have their version on the www and it's best to look at them.
Having said all that I love the things, it's nice getting back to our roots in 35mm film and the specification of them covers most situations except for flash (no flash sync available on the 1's). But they do perform well and just look great.
The next step up is the FED 2 and a Jupiter-8 which is a great piece of kit and just needs a Leica style lens hood and meter. Or you can baffle people with a Fed or Zorki 1 with a Jupiter-8 lens on it; that combination would be the answer to a 1930's photographers dream - meaning a Zeiss lens (clone) on a Leica body (clone).
But whatever you do, expect a few surprises at first, and persevere, and you'll be surprised. I hope that that will apply to your wife as well...
Regards, David
oftheherd
Veteran
You didn't mention yours or your wife's experience with taking photos with film cameras. Are you sure she might not be happier with something like a good P&S such as a Canonet or the like?
film4ever
Member
I would suggest a FED 2 and an Industar (if the budget is low) or a Jupiter 8 (medium budget) or Jupiter 3 (high budget).
I have this camera, it is my first rangefinder. No lightmeter. But I litterally love it. It is easy to use, you can find on the web manuals of everything about it: dismounting and lubing (I have done it: simpler than I tought), setting the rangefinder, changing the curtains... everything.
It is small enough to put it in you everyday bag without any fear: the camera plus shipment is around 40 euros.
You must learn the sunny 16 rule, but it is quite easy and, in my opinion, since you must think well to every picture you take you will have a different approach to the photography in general, technically and not.
I have this camera, it is my first rangefinder. No lightmeter. But I litterally love it. It is easy to use, you can find on the web manuals of everything about it: dismounting and lubing (I have done it: simpler than I tought), setting the rangefinder, changing the curtains... everything.
It is small enough to put it in you everyday bag without any fear: the camera plus shipment is around 40 euros.
You must learn the sunny 16 rule, but it is quite easy and, in my opinion, since you must think well to every picture you take you will have a different approach to the photography in general, technically and not.
carlb
Established
I should have explained things a bit more clearly
I should have explained things a bit more clearly
David & oftheherd
Sorry, after re-reading my post I see that I didn't explain myself very clearly - the camera would be for me.
Thanks for all the suggestions, there's plenty of useful info to consider. Thanks for all the help
Carl
I should have explained things a bit more clearly
David & oftheherd
Sorry, after re-reading my post I see that I didn't explain myself very clearly - the camera would be for me.
Thanks for all the suggestions, there's plenty of useful info to consider. Thanks for all the help
Carl
wolves3012
Veteran
I'd decide what features you must have first of all, there are quite a few FED/Zorki/Kiev models and they all have good points and limitations. What lenses are you intending to use? Will you need slower speeds for longer exposures? Will you want longer or fast lenses that will need the best RF? Does is have to be small and pocketable?
There's a sticky thread in this sub-forum outlining the more common models, what they have and don't have. Try and buy from a reputable seller, who will accept returns if faulty. I bought all of mine (bar two) from Ebay sellers and many of them required some minor-to-major attention but I don't mind servicing and repairing them myself.
For reliability, the FED 2 is generally regarded as one of the best. The Zorki 5 and 6 are also very good all-rounders (the 5 being a bottom-load model) with brighter finders. A Zorki 4 or 4K in good order is cheap and a pretty capable camera. The FED 1/Zorki 1 offers a compact camera with the "30s experience". Kievs are also capable all-rounders if you can get used to the quirky grip you'll have to use.
Many of us end up with more than one!
There's a sticky thread in this sub-forum outlining the more common models, what they have and don't have. Try and buy from a reputable seller, who will accept returns if faulty. I bought all of mine (bar two) from Ebay sellers and many of them required some minor-to-major attention but I don't mind servicing and repairing them myself.
For reliability, the FED 2 is generally regarded as one of the best. The Zorki 5 and 6 are also very good all-rounders (the 5 being a bottom-load model) with brighter finders. A Zorki 4 or 4K in good order is cheap and a pretty capable camera. The FED 1/Zorki 1 offers a compact camera with the "30s experience". Kievs are also capable all-rounders if you can get used to the quirky grip you'll have to use.
Many of us end up with more than one!
Spider67
Well-known
Don't forget models like the Fed 3 or the Zorki C which are quite cheap.
oftheherd
Veteran
Not a problem. Everyone is just trying to help as you can see from the answers you already have. Fed and Zorki cameras always get good reviews. I don't have any so I can't be sure, but sometimes I think it is just because they are Leica clones. I don't know that they are any better than Kiev cameras. Kievs are not Leica clones, so if you think you would ever want a Leica, at least with them you will have some lenses you can already use.
Also, the Keiv has quirks such as keeping your finger out of the RF window, and fewer lenses to choose from. Other than that, I think they are all about the same crap shoot whether or not you will get a user from opening the package.
Good luck on what you choose.
lxmike
M2 fan.
If it was for myself I would go for Zorki 4K and a Jupiter 8 50mm
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Seconded. The most usable (?least unusable) body and a lens which, although variable, is delightful at its best.
Cheers,
R.
gholen
Now what!?
I'd say, a Zorki 4/4K with the jupiter 8 and thats it. I live my Zorki, and with some cheap Kodak Gold 200, i have a lot of fun.
So go for that one
So go for that one
D.O'K.
Darren O'Keeffe.
Whilst further seconding the merits of a Zorki 4K, consider also the Zorki 6, which has certain advantages over other FSU cameras, viz: a longer-base rangefinder, shutter speeds which can be set regardless of whether you've wound on first (i.e. there's no risk of damage to the mechanism), plus a hinged back door for easy loading.
It's also somewhat quieter than most FSU's, including the 4K.
Against all this, it has a more restricted range of shutter speeds.
Regards,
D.
It's also somewhat quieter than most FSU's, including the 4K.
Against all this, it has a more restricted range of shutter speeds.
Regards,
D.
Rhodes
Time Lord
Kiev 4 or Zorki 4k!
paulfish4570
Veteran
I am finally the owner of a freshly CLA'd Fed-2. It is a dream to use. The adjustable diopter means I do not have to wear reading glasses to focus/compose. I use the I-26 and I-61 lenses. The Jupiter-8 is excellent as well.
carlb
Established
A decision has been made and an order has been placed
A decision has been made and an order has been placed
After spending quite some time going through all the helpful information provided in this and other threads, there will be a Zorki 6 with a Jupiter 8 sitting under the tree on Xmas morning
Thanks to everyone for all the help and advice
A decision has been made and an order has been placed
After spending quite some time going through all the helpful information provided in this and other threads, there will be a Zorki 6 with a Jupiter 8 sitting under the tree on Xmas morning
Thanks to everyone for all the help and advice
bobby_novatron
Photon Collector
Congrats on your decision! I'm sure you'll enjoy the Zorki 6.
I was going to throw my 2 cents in for the Kiev 4a ... I like mine a lot. It's a 1966 model, and it has worked flawlessly since I bought it (from ebay).
I'm sure you'll be happy with the Zorki. It's a fun camera!
I was going to throw my 2 cents in for the Kiev 4a ... I like mine a lot. It's a 1966 model, and it has worked flawlessly since I bought it (from ebay).
I'm sure you'll be happy with the Zorki. It's a fun camera!