Agfa Ambi Silette version comparison

[Terao]

I'd read on the web that there were different versions of Agfa's flagship interchangeable lens rangefinder from the late '50s but hadn't realised quite how different they are. Different winder, rangefinder, frame selector, and top plate. Not seen too much discussion of this camera here which is a pity as it does a fine job. Great finder complete with parallax correction and very bright framelines. RF patch is pretty good too although it flares a little. Very solidly built, highly complicated bayonet mount. 4 lenses available (I own them all 🙂 ) - 35mm f/4, 50mm f/2.8, 90mm f/4, 130mm f/4.

As the R-D1 is to the M8 so the Ambi Silette was to the M3. Was anyone else making a non-LTM rangefinder in the late '50s?

Plenty of pictures of the differences in this Flickr set:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kiloran/sets/72157600705718633/detail/

The Ambi Silette II is my father's camera, the Silette I is to be sacrificed in the quest to build an adapter to mount the lenses on LTM/M 🙁

The Head Bartender's page on the camera is here:

http://www.cameraquest.com/agfambi.htm

 

[al1966]

Is there more info? as Im quite facinated by these especially as they can be got for a reasonable price. I guess that you use them how good do you find them in use? also does it flash sync at all speeds?

 

[Terao]

Has X & M sync - x syncs @ 1/30th only, M syncs 1/60th-1/500th
Its a synchro-compur leaf shutter, also has a self-timer.
The manual is available online here:

http://www.urmonas.net/manuals/ambisil/ambisil.html

It handles nicely, the lenses have reasonably short throws and are as solidly built as any period top-end lens (Canon, Nikon, Leica, etc.). Typical characteristics of the period as well - low contrast and high sharpness. The 35,50, & 90 all share the same filter mount (37.5mm I think) so you can share hoods and filters.

Single stroke advance, easy loading. No rewind crank is the biggest pain

Here's the complete kit:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/95/245189894_760f5cb828_b.jpg

The mount and shutter makes the camera fat, without it the actual body is the same thickness as a Canon P and slightly shorter. Handles best in the later version of the ever-ready case, when used as a half case

RF patch reminds me of the Canon P as well, with the benefit of switchable parallax corrected bright framelines.

Don't use it as much as I used to now I've gone digital, but if you want a very good rangefinder film body and don't need fast lenses its a very good option. My father travelled the world with his, very competent camera if his slide archive is anything to go by.

 

[ZeissFan]

> Was anyone else making a non-LTM rangefinder in the late '50s?

Leica might have created the market for the miniature camera, but it certainly didn't have sole ownership.

Other 35mm rangefinders that come to mind:

-- Voigtlander Vito CLR, BLR, Vito III, Prominent

-- Agfa Karat, Solinette, Silette and Ambi-Silette

-- Zeiss Ikon Contina, Contessa folding and rigid and of course the Contax (since 1932). Prewar: Contax, Nettax, Super Nettel, Tenax II

-- Kodak Retina ... many, many models, including folding and rigid (fixed lens and interchangeable for folding and rigid)

-- Kodak 35 RF (Kodak should always feel shame for designing such a hideous camera), Kodak Signet series

-- Argus C3, C4, C44

-- Balda

-- Welti (were they still making cameras in the 1950s?)

-- Werra (East German)


-- Konica

-- Nikon S series

-- Minolta

-- The Foca cameras from France

-- Soviet cameras ... Fed (Leica copy/compatible) and Kiev

-- Reid (Leica copy from the U.K.)

-- Canon (Leica copy/compatible)

 

[Terao]

I guess what I should have said was with their own mount, brave/foolish decision to introduce an entire system so late in the life of the RF as a mainstream camera.
Had a look at the price lists, seems that the camera cost around $60, or £22. That makes it around £350 in today's money for the body, ERC, and 50mm lens. That stacks up nicely with the RD1 vs M8 comparison, putting it clearly in the modern Bessa market

 

[ZeissFan]

Ah hah. Now I have to think a bit harder.

Interchangeable lens rangefinders with proprietary mounts:

-- The Kodak Retina IIIS (which shared lenses with the Reflex S, III and IV). The

-- The Kodak Retina IIc/IIC and IIIc/IIIC had interchangeable front elements, which could be shared with the first Kodak Retina Reflex.

-- The Voigtlander Prominent

-- The entire Contax line shared the same mount and can use any lens on any camera EXCEPT for the postwar West German Biogons, which can only be used on a Contax IIa/IIIa.

-- Agfa's Ambi-Sillette.

-- The East German Werra.

-- The prewar Foca.

-- The prewar Zeiss Ikon Tenax II and Nettax each had lines of interchangeable lenses.

The disappearance of the rangefinder camera systems in the 1960s wasn't because anyone won or lost the market segment. For the most part, the pro-level rangefinder market disappeared as the single-lens reflex took over.

Agfa, Zeiss Ikon, Voigtlander and others could kill off their rangefinders and still have other cameras to offer the public. Not so with Leica, which was quite late to the market with its SLR.

Leica, which only made one camera system for many years, couldn't really withdraw from that market. It would have been left with nothing.

 

[rxmd]

> Was anyone else making a non-LTM rangefinder in the late '50s?

Other 35mm rangefinders that come to mind:

[...]

For the sake of precision, some of your list are actually LTM; I guess the question was more whether there were other camera systems.

There's a couple of other systems as well that you haven't mentioned, such as the later Braun Paxettes.

Philipp

 

[ZeissFan]

Ah yes, I'm quite sure that I've missed some along the way ... more than a few. I would encourage others to add to this list.

I think I've forgotten the Argus C44 on the second list.

There are just so many cameras through the years ...

 

[rpsawin]

This guy has a body and 3 lenses for sale
http://www.certo6.com/
Once on the site click on his ebay store.

Better move quickly as the auction ends today.

Bob

 

[al1966]

This guy has a body and 3 lenses for sale
http://www.certo6.com/
Once on the site click on his ebay store.

Better move quickly as the auction ends today.

Bob

Dont get paid for two wks and no large cam buying money left:bang: :bang: :bang: and its beyond temptation the more I read the more I want one and that one looks real nice😡 oh well

 

[Terao]

Hmm, I seem to have generated GAS 😀
Expect the lenses to go up in value once I get my adapter to mount them on LTM specced and built 🙂

 

[Terao]

Example street shot (probably not helping 🙂 )
Think this is Napoli c.1961, Agfa CT18 "fast" slide film (all of ISO50!)

 

[al1966]

Hmm, I seem to have generated GAS 😀
Expect the lenses to go up in value once I get my adapter to mount them on LTM specced and built 🙂

Ive just won one on the bay😀 £13.11 inc postage supposed to be working so well see😀 😀 Its time to look for glass🙂🙄

 

[Terao]

Good to hear that. The 35 & 90 are reasonably easy to find (less easy with the boxes and bubble cases that I've got 😀). 130 is very hard to find, particularly with the case and finder...

I assume you have a 50? I have several now that I've acquired whilst buying stuff to get hold of other collectibles. You're welcome to one if you didn't get one or your 50 is battered about...

Expect them to go up in value when I build my adapter 🙂

 

[Terao]

Well, I'm doing some camera hacking to try and work out a way to mount Ambi lenses on M-mount.

This set details the disassembly of the lens mount. VERY neat outer bayonet system

http://www.flickr.com/photos/kiloran/sets/72157600437114583/

 

[Terao]

There's a complete set on eBay at the moment. Rare to find them with lens cases. If its in as good condition as the buyer attests its a very good buy for a European buyer (less so for US due to weakness of the dollar)

Its still the poor man's Leica M3 😀

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330149693608&ssPageName=ADME:B:SS:UK:1