bigeye
Well-known
Installed a leather bellowsfrom Dennis and Elena Workman on my new Speedex with excellent results: http://www.workmansphotography.com/bellows_one.html It was shipped quickly and I was able to install it in less than an hour yesterday
AS Dennis warned, it pressured the door at first, but worked-in by today. It's made out of light leather with a cloth liner. Perfect, really, just as shown in his pictureS. Used contact cement and an xacto to carefully trim the excess.
BTW, I had bought the Speedex off Ebay and it looks like a previous owner had pulled, cleaned and lubed the front and middle elements. After installing the leather bellows, I tried to recalibrate the focusing ring using a screen from my 4x5, but the focus would not change from ~8' no matter how many turns on the front element I made in or out(!). This defied, um, science. The camera is so simple that I couldn't figure out the how the focal length could change without changing focal point.
I then realized that my assumption about the front element being cleaned was only half-right. The middle element unscrewed from the back of the front, but I noticed that the unit actually had 2 small lens carriers, which I checked against Reichert's photos. So, the middle's threads were clean and the front and middle were still fused (at 8'). They wouldn't budge - as discovered by every Agfa/Ansco owner.
Rather than using Dave R's somewhat scary "double-hose clamp" method, I put the tea kettle on and dropped the cell into the hot water. 10 mins later, it easily unscrewed by hand. It took a few minutes to remove the pernicious goo - as it cooled, it tried to retain it's fused state; very un-lubricant like properties. Found naptha removed it easily.
Order returned after screwing the now separated middle element into the shutter with the SK Grimes spanner and free wheeling front element. The lesson, I guess, is that if you cannot change focus at all, the middle element is moving with the front.
- Charlie
AS Dennis warned, it pressured the door at first, but worked-in by today. It's made out of light leather with a cloth liner. Perfect, really, just as shown in his pictureS. Used contact cement and an xacto to carefully trim the excess.
BTW, I had bought the Speedex off Ebay and it looks like a previous owner had pulled, cleaned and lubed the front and middle elements. After installing the leather bellows, I tried to recalibrate the focusing ring using a screen from my 4x5, but the focus would not change from ~8' no matter how many turns on the front element I made in or out(!). This defied, um, science. The camera is so simple that I couldn't figure out the how the focal length could change without changing focal point.
I then realized that my assumption about the front element being cleaned was only half-right. The middle element unscrewed from the back of the front, but I noticed that the unit actually had 2 small lens carriers, which I checked against Reichert's photos. So, the middle's threads were clean and the front and middle were still fused (at 8'). They wouldn't budge - as discovered by every Agfa/Ansco owner.
Rather than using Dave R's somewhat scary "double-hose clamp" method, I put the tea kettle on and dropped the cell into the hot water. 10 mins later, it easily unscrewed by hand. It took a few minutes to remove the pernicious goo - as it cooled, it tried to retain it's fused state; very un-lubricant like properties. Found naptha removed it easily.
Order returned after screwing the now separated middle element into the shutter with the SK Grimes spanner and free wheeling front element. The lesson, I guess, is that if you cannot change focus at all, the middle element is moving with the front.
- Charlie
charjohncarter
Veteran
Thanks that is good to know. These cameras are well made EXCEPT for the bellows. They all needed replacing. I bought one just to get the leather case, but it was in sure excellent condition that I just had to replace the bellows (which I sent out).
Edit: Triflow from your bike shop works wonders on that green junk they used for lens grease. If it moves at all try it, but be careful not to get it into the shutter.
Edit: Triflow from your bike shop works wonders on that green junk they used for lens grease. If it moves at all try it, but be careful not to get it into the shutter.
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ZeissFan
Veteran
Are you using boiling water? Or just very hot water?
I'm working on a couple of Agfas now, and so I'm looking for the best method of releasing these things.
I'm working on a couple of Agfas now, and so I'm looking for the best method of releasing these things.
hanskerensky
Well-known
Thanks for sharing Charlie !
The old grease in these Isolettes really can be anoying.
I guess you warmed up the cell slowly or did you actually create a shock-effect by dropping it in the hot water ?
I myself use often a hairdryer to warm up the frontcell.
Regards,
Hans
The old grease in these Isolettes really can be anoying.
I guess you warmed up the cell slowly or did you actually create a shock-effect by dropping it in the hot water ?
I myself use often a hairdryer to warm up the frontcell.
Regards,
Hans
Joao
Negativistic forever
Isolette bellows replacement
Isolette bellows replacement
i've read that the bellows from a Kodak 66 folder can be used in the Isolette, so one has just to find a donor Kodak. Seems to be very easy to put the Kodak bellows in the Isolette.
Regards
Joao
Isolette bellows replacement
i've read that the bellows from a Kodak 66 folder can be used in the Isolette, so one has just to find a donor Kodak. Seems to be very easy to put the Kodak bellows in the Isolette.
Regards
Joao
batterytypehah!
Lord of the Dings
Thanks for the tip! I have a number of Agfas to free up.
bigeye
Well-known
I thought about using the hair dryer treatment and it should work fine, but I think the combination of soaking heat and the moisture really loosens it up. It was very easy to unscrew.
The threads are so fine and the grease so clay-like that it would probably take awhile with solvent/penetrants.
The lens unit was warmed gradually in a teacup with warm-to-hot sink water first. Not sure that it is necessary, but I didn't wish to chance wrecking the lens. Replaced the sink water with the kettle's when it came up. Steep for 10 min.
Joao, I looked for a 66, but the prices have risen on them for this use. A brand new leather bellows from Dennis is about the same price and far better.
I'm almost through the first roll. John, I do need a case, too. There are no lugs and it doesn't fit in my pockets like the IIIf. I really like the size, though - 6x6 in a package that is only a bit taller than the little 35mm rangefinders.
(Someone handed me a Polaroid 110B this weekend; thinking about a 4x5 conversion. Then I'll have a complete set of cheap old compacts!)
Maybe, I should just take some pictures...
- Charlie
The threads are so fine and the grease so clay-like that it would probably take awhile with solvent/penetrants.
The lens unit was warmed gradually in a teacup with warm-to-hot sink water first. Not sure that it is necessary, but I didn't wish to chance wrecking the lens. Replaced the sink water with the kettle's when it came up. Steep for 10 min.
Joao, I looked for a 66, but the prices have risen on them for this use. A brand new leather bellows from Dennis is about the same price and far better.
I'm almost through the first roll. John, I do need a case, too. There are no lugs and it doesn't fit in my pockets like the IIIf. I really like the size, though - 6x6 in a package that is only a bit taller than the little 35mm rangefinders.
(Someone handed me a Polaroid 110B this weekend; thinking about a 4x5 conversion. Then I'll have a complete set of cheap old compacts!)
Maybe, I should just take some pictures...
- Charlie
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charjohncarter
Veteran
What has worked for me on the completely frozen ones: is to heat it up in an oven to 225 degrees. This is how I do it: get gloves, two hose clamps; put the hose clamps one the two ends, put the gloves on and warm it in the oven. I never get to 225 degrees because I take it out and twist as it is warming. Then I clean as best I can and add Triflow. Triflow gets into the remaining green stuff and it will not dry out again.
FallisPhoto
Veteran
Yes, the Kodak 66 cameras were horrible POS cameras with only one good point: They were so bad that they didn't see much use, so their bellows (very good) are usually like new, are easy to remove, and are a perfect fit in Isolettes. Unfortunately, since I posted that tip, the price for Kodak 66 cameras has gone through the roof. It's hard to find them for $15 or less anymore.
jnoir
Well-known
As far as I know, any folder camera for 6x6 can act as donor for another 6x6 folder with similar focal lengths. Keeping it in one piece when removing it from the previous camera is a different thing. BTW, I'd rather have two repaired cameras than only one, and bellows replacement is my best option. Therefore, I manufacture my own leather bellows.
FallisPhoto
Veteran
As far as I know, any folder camera for 6x6 can act as donor for another 6x6 folder with similar focal lengths. Keeping it in one piece when removing it from the previous camera is a different thing. BTW, I'd rather have two repaired cameras than only one, and bellows replacement is my best option. Therefore, I manufacture my own leather bellows.
As Andrew just said, that is not at all the case. For example, I had a 6x6 Welta Weltur that needed new bellows, and had to have a bellows custom made. The guy in England who makes them (I'm sure all the repairmen here know who I mean) was apparently feeling lazy that day and sent me a 6x6 NOS Balda bellows -- after about 6 months. It wasn't even close to a correct fit; neither were the NOS Kodak bellows I had. Respectively, one had a front standard that was too big and one had a front standard that was too small. The Kodak bellows will fit an Isolette perfectly though. Anyway, I was, to put it mildly, rather irked. After several increasingly heated e-mails, I finally got the guy in England to agree to hand-make a bellows (which was what I had paid him to do in the first place). It took him another 3 months. I am, of course, not sending him any more work.
jnoir
Well-known
Edited.
Three months looks like an awful lot for just one single set of bellows... Anyway, that's something new for me, as said I have never tried this by myself. It's good to know, and also makes me wonder why I don't keep track of the different sizes (maybe 'cos I keep the originals ready for duplicate when needed and have never compared side by side...)
Three months looks like an awful lot for just one single set of bellows... Anyway, that's something new for me, as said I have never tried this by myself. It's good to know, and also makes me wonder why I don't keep track of the different sizes (maybe 'cos I keep the originals ready for duplicate when needed and have never compared side by side...)
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bigeye
Well-known
If you're wondering how to replace an Isolette/Speedex bellows, here is a video series by Dennis Workman (bellows guy). Youtube Bellows replacement
He has one on collimation, too Setting focus.
He has one on collimation, too Setting focus.
chris00nj
Young Luddite
I missed the thread the first time around, but I'm glad I've caught it now.
I bought an Agfa Ansco Speedex for $20. It's got several pinhole leaks and shutter speeds stick at 1/2 and 1/5. Focus looks good so I'm okay there.
I had been deciding with either to get new bellows or use some black silicone to plug the leaks. I bought the black silicone because I didn't know how to exactly go about replacing the bellows. Since I actually haven't tried to use the silicone yet, the videos are a big help.
What cell did you drop in hot water? Is that all related to getting the lens element off?
Otherwise a nice looking camera. It has a unnamed 85/4.5 Agfa lens with a 7 speed (plus B & T) shutter.
I bought an Agfa Ansco Speedex for $20. It's got several pinhole leaks and shutter speeds stick at 1/2 and 1/5. Focus looks good so I'm okay there.
I had been deciding with either to get new bellows or use some black silicone to plug the leaks. I bought the black silicone because I didn't know how to exactly go about replacing the bellows. Since I actually haven't tried to use the silicone yet, the videos are a big help.
What cell did you drop in hot water? Is that all related to getting the lens element off?
Otherwise a nice looking camera. It has a unnamed 85/4.5 Agfa lens with a 7 speed (plus B & T) shutter.
jnoir
Well-known
I would not use hot water... But if you do, I guess you can only do it if you remove the two front elements sticked together (I would not put water anywhere near the shutter assembly). Anyway, use other methods like the rubber bands (low-risk method) or the hairdryer (be careful with sudden temperature differences, glass may crack).
You camera, as can be seen in the front, is an Ansco B2 Speedex (known in Europe as the original Isolette or Isorette 4.5, early model as the top cover is black instead of chromed).
You camera, as can be seen in the front, is an Ansco B2 Speedex (known in Europe as the original Isolette or Isorette 4.5, early model as the top cover is black instead of chromed).
bigeye
Well-known
Yes, just the front cell gets the dip (the front and middle lens are the ones that get stuck). Simple. Safe. Fast.
BTW: My front focusing lens has a bit of play in its threads.
When collimating, a wiggle does change focus a bit. I'm wondering if the green goo was used as a filler to simulate a close tolerance(?).
I work around this by pressing the lens in the same place as I did when it was collimated before a shot. Will see how the pix come out...
BTW: My front focusing lens has a bit of play in its threads.
When collimating, a wiggle does change focus a bit. I'm wondering if the green goo was used as a filler to simulate a close tolerance(?). I work around this by pressing the lens in the same place as I did when it was collimated before a shot. Will see how the pix come out...
chris00nj
Young Luddite
Thanks for the info. I'm not sure what the equivalent shutter is. I'm also not sure whether the "Agfa 85mm f/4.5" is really a Agnar or Apotar. I'm not even sure what the difference between two Cooke triplets are.
If you replace the bellows will a realignment of the lens be required? I'm not sure why it would be, but I want to make sure as it would add another step of complexity.
Bellows are up to $50. I first looked a few weeks ago and they were $30. Inflation sucks.
jnoir
Well-known
@chippy, thanks! Very informative, I have never handled an Ansco branded camera yet, and because I do not collect but use I have always skipped those "low-spec'd" models.
BTW, this is what happens the lesser convenient day if you repair your bellows covering the corners with tape or liquid vinyl (and that's on a Super Isolette which supposedly has better bellows quality ;-):
BTW, this is what happens the lesser convenient day if you repair your bellows covering the corners with tape or liquid vinyl (and that's on a Super Isolette which supposedly has better bellows quality ;-):
FallisPhoto
Veteran
If you just replace the bellows, then no, "realigning" (the technical phrase is recolimating) the lens is not necessary. When it is necessary is when you have taken the front and center elements out of the shutter to unstick them and you forgot to mark their positions respective to one another before taking them apart. The sleeve surrounding the front element screws onto the sleeve surrounding the center element and that's how you focus the camera. If you have taken them apart, you change the relationship of one element to another, the camera is out of focus and you need to figure out how far to screw them back together in order for the lens to be focused at infinity, so you can put the whole thing back together again.
Unfortunately, Agfa used a type of grease that had no galvanic resistance at all and the way they plated the camera results in a very tiny bit of electricity being generated by the two dissimilar metals. Small as it is, this miniscule charge of electricity passes through the grease they used and causes it to polymerize (form chains of molecules). After 40 years or so, the grease finally achieves the consistency of road tar and the focusing freezes up. Only heat will soften it enough to unscrew the two lens elements (still requires some force). You can pick it out of the threads then, with a dental pick or a bent pin, and replace it with good grease. If you didn't mark the positions of the two lens elements in respect to one another, now you have to recolimate the lenses (figure out how much one element should be threaded into the other in order for the lens as a whole to be in focus at infinity).
Steve M.
Veteran
Good thread! I bought a couple of Agfa Isolettes for cheap because they had frozen focus (always the first question to ask your seller BEFORE you bid or buy) w/ the idea of fixing them and maybe making a dollar or two. Besides, I'm a sucker for an Apotar w/ a yellow filter and Tri-X. Unfortunately my repair skills weren't up to the task at hand. After trying the hair dryer treatment (did nada) and heating the elements on an electric stove (more nada) I tried solvents. Nothing. After a few days I tried the hose clamps w/ the stove idea. This time I got results, but not what I'd planned on. I had over tightened the clamps, and after getting no results yet again tightened it a little too much and the inner lens cracked. Turns out the metal part of the lens is just soft brass, so be careful using any sort of pressure.
The bellows patching is best regarded as something for emergencies just to get you through until you get a new bellows. I've been successful w/ this on other folders, but it usually just stresses the other areas of the bellows until you end up w/ a light leak somewhere else eventually. There really is no substitute for a new bellows. This has always been the weak link w/ the Agfa/Speedex cameras, along w/ the frozen focus, but they're such nice shooters once you get them sorted out it's worth refurbishing them.
The Welta and Ikontas I've owned all had excellent bellows that looked like they could have lasted another 50 years. I'm surprised someone had to replace theirs on a Welta, but who knows how the camera was treated decades ago.
Here's a shot from an Agfa Isolette w/ the aforementioned Apotar w/ Tri-X and yellow filter. Not the best resolving lens, but darn good for an old triplet.
The bellows patching is best regarded as something for emergencies just to get you through until you get a new bellows. I've been successful w/ this on other folders, but it usually just stresses the other areas of the bellows until you end up w/ a light leak somewhere else eventually. There really is no substitute for a new bellows. This has always been the weak link w/ the Agfa/Speedex cameras, along w/ the frozen focus, but they're such nice shooters once you get them sorted out it's worth refurbishing them.
The Welta and Ikontas I've owned all had excellent bellows that looked like they could have lasted another 50 years. I'm surprised someone had to replace theirs on a Welta, but who knows how the camera was treated decades ago.
Here's a shot from an Agfa Isolette w/ the aforementioned Apotar w/ Tri-X and yellow filter. Not the best resolving lens, but darn good for an old triplet.