dis
Newbie
Hello everyone, I'm new here!
I inherited my grandfather's folding camera, I believe it is a PB20. The shutter does not respond, so I imagine it needs a good cleaning. Otherwise, it seems to be in excellent condition. Can anyone help steer me towards proper instructions to give it a good clean? The lens is a Viking Anastigmat (I know nothing about vintage cameras so please bear with me..)
I appreciate any guidance in advance, and hopefully soon I'll be able to restore it to working condition.
I inherited my grandfather's folding camera, I believe it is a PB20. The shutter does not respond, so I imagine it needs a good cleaning. Otherwise, it seems to be in excellent condition. Can anyone help steer me towards proper instructions to give it a good clean? The lens is a Viking Anastigmat (I know nothing about vintage cameras so please bear with me..)
I appreciate any guidance in advance, and hopefully soon I'll be able to restore it to working condition.
Attachments
batterytypehah!
Lord of the Dings
I'm not familiar with this particular one but looking at some Agfa and Ansco folders on ebay I think you're right. See e.g. item no. 380234276207.
I can't tell from the photos (yours and ebay) if those are screws or rivets holding the cover on the shutter. If screws, you can probably just take the cover off to clean the shutter (a little charcoal lighter fluid on a cotton swab or artist's paintbrush is good for this). Don't use WD40, it doesn't do a great job but it's sure to creep everywhere you don't want it to go.
I'm just generalizing from other folders and shutters I've worked on. Better wait until somebody on the forum can confirm the above.
The most important thing with any folder is that the bellows is free of pinholes. Look in with the back of the camera open and the front against the sun, and poke the leather here and there. The corners always wear out first, of course. A few tiny holes is not the end of the world, if you fold up the camera in between shots most will still come out OK. A lot of damage basically means the camera is best for display. Bellows can be fixed or replaced, of course, but it will be more work and/or money than the camera is worth.
It's your grandfather's though, which is very neat and makes the dollar value secondary. Enjoy it!
I can't tell from the photos (yours and ebay) if those are screws or rivets holding the cover on the shutter. If screws, you can probably just take the cover off to clean the shutter (a little charcoal lighter fluid on a cotton swab or artist's paintbrush is good for this). Don't use WD40, it doesn't do a great job but it's sure to creep everywhere you don't want it to go.
I'm just generalizing from other folders and shutters I've worked on. Better wait until somebody on the forum can confirm the above.
The most important thing with any folder is that the bellows is free of pinholes. Look in with the back of the camera open and the front against the sun, and poke the leather here and there. The corners always wear out first, of course. A few tiny holes is not the end of the world, if you fold up the camera in between shots most will still come out OK. A lot of damage basically means the camera is best for display. Bellows can be fixed or replaced, of course, but it will be more work and/or money than the camera is worth.
It's your grandfather's though, which is very neat and makes the dollar value secondary. Enjoy it!
jnoir
Well-known
Your camera actually looks like a PD16 Viking (there was a PD Readyset Special, but the WLF attached to the shutter reveals it as a Viking). A manual for the camera can be found at http://www.cameramanuals.org/agfa_ansco/agfa_pd16_viking.pdf
I have not owned this particular model, but to remove the shutter and lens assembly you will most probably need to remove a ring from the rear part. To open the front covers of the shutter (you can almost surely do it with the shutter assembly mounted on the camera, but I don't recommend it to do it the right way, and also as said I don't have this particular camera) you will need to remove the element or elements until you can reach the shutter's blades (see for tiny screws around the lens or something like that). I think it has a couple of screws, one at each side of the lens. I'd start there.
More photos may be of help.
What is the particular problem of the shutter? Looks like it's one of the "everready" ones, in which you tension and release the shutter with a single trip of the lever.
I have not owned this particular model, but to remove the shutter and lens assembly you will most probably need to remove a ring from the rear part. To open the front covers of the shutter (you can almost surely do it with the shutter assembly mounted on the camera, but I don't recommend it to do it the right way, and also as said I don't have this particular camera) you will need to remove the element or elements until you can reach the shutter's blades (see for tiny screws around the lens or something like that). I think it has a couple of screws, one at each side of the lens. I'd start there.
More photos may be of help.
What is the particular problem of the shutter? Looks like it's one of the "everready" ones, in which you tension and release the shutter with a single trip of the lever.
Last edited:
FallisPhoto
Veteran
I've got a PB20 and I restored it, along with a PD16, so I know about this one.
First, remove the shutter from the camera. There is a ring at the back of the shutter that holds it to the front standard. Unscrew this. Next, remove the lenses. The front element just unscrews (after you remove the studs that stop it from turning), but you will need a lens wrench to remove the center and rear elements. You will have to remove them from the front and from the back. There are two screws on the face plate of the shutter (either side of the lens). You will have to remove these and after that it becomes pretty self-evident what will need to be done. If you have not done this before, then after removing the shutter speed cam plate (the big slotted disk on the front), you had better stop there. This will give you access to the guts of the shutter and you will not be getting in over your head.
Flush the shutter's guts out with lighter fluid and use an artist's watercolor brush to get in between the parts and scrub the old lube out. Flush it again. Repeat 3 times. Then you use more lighter fluid on cotton swabs to clean the shutter blades and aperture blades, front and back. On the escapements only (speeds and self timer, if you have one -- I don't remember), use the artist's brush, slightly dampened with one drop of very light oil (Remoil or watch oil) per teaspoon of lighter fluid, and work the bristles between the gears to lightly lube it. The brush should be just slightly damp. Do not get any oil on the shutter blades. Oil on the shutter blades will cause them to stick together and they won't work. Better no oil at all than too much, so don't be tempted to use more oil.
As you clean the shutter blades with the wet naptha (lighter fluid) work the shutter blades a few times, then mop up the lighter fluid with the dry end of the swab. Do this about 50 times (no, I'm not joking, 50 times, on each side). After you've done all this, let it dry out overnight and test it to see if it still sticks. If it does, you will have to do it all over again. Just keep at it until your shutter stops sticking. There are better ways to do this, but it works (if you are persistent) and it is safe for beginners -- in that you won'te get in over your head and wind up with a bunch of parts that you can't figure out how to get back together again.
Note: before tripping the shutter (which you will have to do several times when cleaning the shutter blades), put the shutter speed cam and face plate back on. That will keep any loose springs and parts from flying out -- like they probably will if you do this with the front of the shutter open.
First, remove the shutter from the camera. There is a ring at the back of the shutter that holds it to the front standard. Unscrew this. Next, remove the lenses. The front element just unscrews (after you remove the studs that stop it from turning), but you will need a lens wrench to remove the center and rear elements. You will have to remove them from the front and from the back. There are two screws on the face plate of the shutter (either side of the lens). You will have to remove these and after that it becomes pretty self-evident what will need to be done. If you have not done this before, then after removing the shutter speed cam plate (the big slotted disk on the front), you had better stop there. This will give you access to the guts of the shutter and you will not be getting in over your head.
Flush the shutter's guts out with lighter fluid and use an artist's watercolor brush to get in between the parts and scrub the old lube out. Flush it again. Repeat 3 times. Then you use more lighter fluid on cotton swabs to clean the shutter blades and aperture blades, front and back. On the escapements only (speeds and self timer, if you have one -- I don't remember), use the artist's brush, slightly dampened with one drop of very light oil (Remoil or watch oil) per teaspoon of lighter fluid, and work the bristles between the gears to lightly lube it. The brush should be just slightly damp. Do not get any oil on the shutter blades. Oil on the shutter blades will cause them to stick together and they won't work. Better no oil at all than too much, so don't be tempted to use more oil.
As you clean the shutter blades with the wet naptha (lighter fluid) work the shutter blades a few times, then mop up the lighter fluid with the dry end of the swab. Do this about 50 times (no, I'm not joking, 50 times, on each side). After you've done all this, let it dry out overnight and test it to see if it still sticks. If it does, you will have to do it all over again. Just keep at it until your shutter stops sticking. There are better ways to do this, but it works (if you are persistent) and it is safe for beginners -- in that you won'te get in over your head and wind up with a bunch of parts that you can't figure out how to get back together again.
Note: before tripping the shutter (which you will have to do several times when cleaning the shutter blades), put the shutter speed cam and face plate back on. That will keep any loose springs and parts from flying out -- like they probably will if you do this with the front of the shutter open.
Last edited:
FallisPhoto
Veteran
Additional note: An Agfa PB20 uses 620 film. I believe it would be fairly easy to convert this one to 120 film. I'd have to do some measuring to be certain, but I think you could just remove the film cradles.
dis
Newbie
I can't thank you all enough
I can't thank you all enough
I wasn't sure if anyone would reach out and am terribly grateful you've extended your helpfulness - and time and patience in typing all that up, too.
I understand that I will have to set aside plenty of time to take on this project properly, but I'm quite excited and much more confident now. I am the persistent kind and will be thorough as long as I have the hope to bring it back to life. This is the type of thing that's far more valuable than it's price and I'm ready to take on the challenge.
As for the film, I think you're right about 620 - the spool measures 7mm. I suppose that'll just be another interesting step in this adventure.
Thank you all!
I can't thank you all enough
I wasn't sure if anyone would reach out and am terribly grateful you've extended your helpfulness - and time and patience in typing all that up, too.
I understand that I will have to set aside plenty of time to take on this project properly, but I'm quite excited and much more confident now. I am the persistent kind and will be thorough as long as I have the hope to bring it back to life. This is the type of thing that's far more valuable than it's price and I'm ready to take on the challenge.
As for the film, I think you're right about 620 - the spool measures 7mm. I suppose that'll just be another interesting step in this adventure.
Thank you all!
batterytypehah!
Lord of the Dings
You're welcome.
The nice thing is you only need a little time now and then, if you set the project up so it's portable. I use a lid from a cardboard file box, padded with a clean towel. You want something non-bouncy with raised edges because sooner or later one of those tiny pieces will fall. Most important tool after the jeweler's screwdrivers is a digital camera. Take lots of close-ups as you take it apart.
Film: If you have two empty 620 spools, give re-spooling common 120 film a try. There's plenty of info on the web. The spools are the only difference; 120 is just a little bigger at the flanges. (Kodak claimed that this allowed 620 cameras to be smaller than 120 but that's a cheap alibi for trying to lock people into Kodak film.)
The nice thing is you only need a little time now and then, if you set the project up so it's portable. I use a lid from a cardboard file box, padded with a clean towel. You want something non-bouncy with raised edges because sooner or later one of those tiny pieces will fall. Most important tool after the jeweler's screwdrivers is a digital camera. Take lots of close-ups as you take it apart.
Film: If you have two empty 620 spools, give re-spooling common 120 film a try. There's plenty of info on the web. The spools are the only difference; 120 is just a little bigger at the flanges. (Kodak claimed that this allowed 620 cameras to be smaller than 120 but that's a cheap alibi for trying to lock people into Kodak film.)
dis
Newbie
Success!!
Success!!
This weekend I accepted the challenge and spent a few hours dissecting, cleaning, re-cleaning, cleaning some more, and ultimately re-assembling. I was pleasantly surprised the guts of the camera were not as impossibly complex as, say, a watch - but I was sure to be careful not to disrupt those fine, metal springs.
The shutter started working after a little effort and shut down again, but after a few repeated cleanings it seems to be happily functioning!!! I'm so thankful for your instructions, otherwise I never would have known where to begin, or had the gusto to attempt fixing it myself. I'm quite thrilled, thank you all!
Success!!
This weekend I accepted the challenge and spent a few hours dissecting, cleaning, re-cleaning, cleaning some more, and ultimately re-assembling. I was pleasantly surprised the guts of the camera were not as impossibly complex as, say, a watch - but I was sure to be careful not to disrupt those fine, metal springs.
The shutter started working after a little effort and shut down again, but after a few repeated cleanings it seems to be happily functioning!!! I'm so thankful for your instructions, otherwise I never would have known where to begin, or had the gusto to attempt fixing it myself. I'm quite thrilled, thank you all!
Last edited: