mike kim
Established
In my experience, people are much more paranoid in California than anywhere else I've been. larmarv916's post makes sense to me.
A few months ago I was denied entrance to the theatre because I had a camera in my bag (yes, they checked my bag). The ticket guy said that they do not allow cameras in the theatre because of copyright issues. I told him that the camera, a Leica M2, was a film camera, and showed him that it was not loaded, but it didn't seem enough for him. So I called the manager, and he said he shouldn't be letting me in but that he would. BUT if I was caught taking pictures inside, he would have to call the authorities. Haha! It was ridiculous, but at least the film was good (The Boat That Rocked - Pirate Radio) and the main character had an M2
A few months ago I was denied entrance to the theatre because I had a camera in my bag (yes, they checked my bag). The ticket guy said that they do not allow cameras in the theatre because of copyright issues. I told him that the camera, a Leica M2, was a film camera, and showed him that it was not loaded, but it didn't seem enough for him. So I called the manager, and he said he shouldn't be letting me in but that he would. BUT if I was caught taking pictures inside, he would have to call the authorities. Haha! It was ridiculous, but at least the film was good (The Boat That Rocked - Pirate Radio) and the main character had an M2
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lxmike
M2 fan.
I once photographed the Royal train as it came into Centeral Staion Newcastle in north east England. I was about 100 yards away from Queen Elizabeth II, great shots but I was man handled in to a side room by some rather 'big' men, and was questioned by armed officers for an hour. Fristly, I should not have taken phothgraphs. Secondly, I unfortunately matched a description of an anti-royal activist that was expected to turn up and disrupt things.
AJS Lamb
Established
I can understand the attitude of the guard, at the station. However, that woman, at the farmers' market, was a cretin and it sounds like a highly unpleasant end to the evening.
"And this is not NY or London". Last week, I spent two days photographing very exclusive property in London. I used a DSLR, with a hefty telephoto zoom, perched on a monopod. I didn't get stopped once. Never have been.
Last year, I mingled with a bunch of politicians and TV crews, on the green opposite the House of Commons. I was taking snaps, for my own amusement, with an M3. Wasn't stopped once.
Move to London
"And this is not NY or London". Last week, I spent two days photographing very exclusive property in London. I used a DSLR, with a hefty telephoto zoom, perched on a monopod. I didn't get stopped once. Never have been.
Last year, I mingled with a bunch of politicians and TV crews, on the green opposite the House of Commons. I was taking snaps, for my own amusement, with an M3. Wasn't stopped once.
Move to London
JohnTF
Veteran
Is Leica looking in to making a phone? ;-)
xxloverxx
Shoot.
+1 on that & would like to add:
If you do get detained, explain. But only when absolutely necessary —*don't feel obliged to explain to other people or security. You have every right to ignore them.
If you must talk, I'd suggest saying something like: “If you don't want to be photographed, walk away — I have my rights too”.
Personally I'd never apologise, but that varies between people…
xxloverxx
Shoot.
I've never had a problem in any part of mainland China —*when making photos of officers, children, anyone and anything…mainland China, IMO, is one of the best places for street photography.
srtiwari
Daktari
Thank goodness the Chinese have not yet embraced this unpleasant aspect of modern Western living !
I wonder how much help carrying something akin to a "Photographer's rights" , outlining local law etc., would be ?
lacavol
Established
I recently went up 'Angels Flight' and to MOCA in downtown Los Angeles. I asked at both places if it was OK to take pictures and was told to go ahead. Both are at California Plaza. Then I walked into a common area to get a shot of light on the walkway and Angels Flight in the background. A security guard came running out of a building and told me to stop taking pictures. I said OK thinking it was something to do with the big financial building, maybe the bankers were nervous. I went to a common area about 100 meters away and continued as there were others taking pictures with SLRs'. The same guard runs out and across the 100 meters to tell me that I would obey him. I told him to call the cops or I would, he said he would call and I would be in trouble. I took pictures for another 35 minutes and no one came or bothered me. Just another "Cartman" -- 'Respect My Authority' LOL
thepeople
Newbie
My gf and I got thrown away by bouncer in one of tourist spot in my place.
He rudely attack my gf first when he saw she's alone, asking what is it we've been shooting. When I approached, he said he's been eyeing on us since early that day, and said we cant photograph there. I said why cant? The tourist did it and even the centre guard allowed us. I said this is a tourist center rite, so why cant we take photo? then only he become a bit lose and smiling and said we must shoot photo without people noticing it. WTH! to me thats even more dangerous! I shoot openly, thats mean I have no bad intention. then I just get out of the place with his bouncer friends escorting us. damn! I have no freedom to shoot my own country..now I'm changing to Architectural photo, no guard ever caught me yet
He rudely attack my gf first when he saw she's alone, asking what is it we've been shooting. When I approached, he said he's been eyeing on us since early that day, and said we cant photograph there. I said why cant? The tourist did it and even the centre guard allowed us. I said this is a tourist center rite, so why cant we take photo? then only he become a bit lose and smiling and said we must shoot photo without people noticing it. WTH! to me thats even more dangerous! I shoot openly, thats mean I have no bad intention. then I just get out of the place with his bouncer friends escorting us. damn! I have no freedom to shoot my own country..now I'm changing to Architectural photo, no guard ever caught me yet
degruyl
Just this guy, you know?
In my experience (I spent about 2 - 2 1/2 years in china, cumulative), the Chinese have very little privacy hang ups. At least when they are in public. I am not trying to say that they live their lives in some exhibitionist fashion, just that personal space and worrying about pictures do not seem to be an issue.
It is very disconcerting, when you are on the receiving end of it, for the first time. Actually, the personal space thing is disconcerting for a really long time after the first time. Apparently, American and Chinese are on the polar opposite ends of personal space requirements. Europe is slightly less, then middle east, then south / central america, then asia. Broad generalities, but I did read a study on this some time ago. I suspect that perceived privacy (especially privacy theater: it is not as if you are not on camera most of the time you are in public) follows the same pattern. Some people just don't worry about it.
xxloverxx
Shoot.
China's laws regarding technology may be ridiculous, but there's nothing against photography yet (and thank goodness for that)…
I printed a Photographer's Rights sheet out last month for use this summer in London. I think my success will vary depending on how incompetent the officer is.
Someone on Photo.net mentioned (as there are many threads across many forums about street photography) that in the UK, you have the right to ask the officer to call the police station to confirm that what you're being detained for is actually something you can legally be detained for.
I don't think that just applies to being detained either — I'm you could ask them to call at any time they're kicking you out, questioning you (in a manner that tells you you're about to be detained) or whatever else.
srtiwari
Daktari
I think the differences have more to do with Paranoia than Privacy.
The Chinese (I assume) are more conservative and have a greater sense of privacy, compared to us here in the west. Our discomfort has more to do with the fear of how this photograph might be used in some nefarious scheme. In India (where I come from) people are clearly much less prone to want to draw attention, but I have never felt that anyone seemed anxious or angry when I went about taking pictures.
The Chinese (I assume) are more conservative and have a greater sense of privacy, compared to us here in the west. Our discomfort has more to do with the fear of how this photograph might be used in some nefarious scheme. In India (where I come from) people are clearly much less prone to want to draw attention, but I have never felt that anyone seemed anxious or angry when I went about taking pictures.
paulfish4570
Veteran
Bummer ...
robklurfield
eclipse
I was chased last fall in NYC by a food cart vendor who insisted that I delete his image. This guy abandoned his cart to follow me for several blocks. I did not delete anything. He threatened to call a cop. I calmly (well, I tried to be calm) explained that a cop would nothing for him because there is no law against taking pictures on the street. When I'm in NYC, I routinely take photos on the subway and have never had any trouble (yet). This growing paranoia is a terrible pity. For a country whose ethos is centered around notions and mythology of freedom, we sure seem to ceding some of freedoms to fear. I think the next time someone challenges me about snapping a photo I'm going to tell them that "I'm with the government and this is official, though top-secret, business, so please carrying with what you were doing."
emraphoto
Veteran
thats awesome, guy runs up to photograph your license plate then darts off down the dark alley! some people are just wound too tight i tell you.
know your rights folks. know them inside out and keep up to date. ignore the punters.
know your rights folks. know them inside out and keep up to date. ignore the punters.
emraphoto
Veteran
"I think the next time someone challenges me about snapping a photo I'm going to tell them that "I'm with the government and this is official, though top-secret, business, so please carrying with what you were doing."
that is awesome Rob, mind if i borrow it?
that is awesome Rob, mind if i borrow it?
Steve M.
Veteran
Time to move Dean. Not sure where you live, but I sure wouldn't want to be there. Never had these sort of problems anywhere I stayed, and your chances of changing people's behavior are less than zero, so get the suitcase out.
Or maybe it was just a fluke occurrence and may not happen again for a long time? I avoid large cities like the plaque because of issues like this. My freedom to do as I wish, where and when I wish, is more important to me than most anything else, and since large metro areas have become de facto police states I shy away from them. It isn't just about cameras. It's a prevailing mind set that people are a threat and not to be trusted. Learned a long time ago not to complain or think I can protest and change how cities operate. I just move. People are very different in different locations. Ya gotta be around a healthy environment, and what's going on where you're at is decidedly unhealthy and plain wrong.
Or maybe it was just a fluke occurrence and may not happen again for a long time? I avoid large cities like the plaque because of issues like this. My freedom to do as I wish, where and when I wish, is more important to me than most anything else, and since large metro areas have become de facto police states I shy away from them. It isn't just about cameras. It's a prevailing mind set that people are a threat and not to be trusted. Learned a long time ago not to complain or think I can protest and change how cities operate. I just move. People are very different in different locations. Ya gotta be around a healthy environment, and what's going on where you're at is decidedly unhealthy and plain wrong.
robklurfield
eclipse
dovi
Well-known
elusive topic
elusive topic
I think each person gets a different reaction.
My wife and I , on the same block , have each photographed the same person at a distance.
The subject is smiling , obviously flattered, in her shot, and he is snarling aggressively in my shot. This has always facinated me. There is definitely an interaction between all parties involved.
What is interesting to me in your description is that people feel comfortable approaching you in an aggressive way, as though something sparks a frenzy.
I believe eye contact has a lot to do with how people react. I find that the action of lifting a camera to the eye is often enough to put people on edge--They know they are the subject.
I now use a couple of small cameras with LCD screens. I think that since I am looking at the screen and not at the subject, people tend to behave more naturally. I also try to set up so I get the shot before I am told "no photos."
My worst example of this photo frenzy was when a hotdog vendor started yelling "Neeger". Since I was with my family I did not respond at all but to take a few more shots. It can get dicey out there.
I think it will be important for you to review your technique to see if there is something you can do to minimize the frenzy because this can go in any direction.
Each situation is different but I find that by appearing disinterested works for me most of the time.
elusive topic
I think each person gets a different reaction.
My wife and I , on the same block , have each photographed the same person at a distance.
The subject is smiling , obviously flattered, in her shot, and he is snarling aggressively in my shot. This has always facinated me. There is definitely an interaction between all parties involved.
What is interesting to me in your description is that people feel comfortable approaching you in an aggressive way, as though something sparks a frenzy.
I believe eye contact has a lot to do with how people react. I find that the action of lifting a camera to the eye is often enough to put people on edge--They know they are the subject.
I now use a couple of small cameras with LCD screens. I think that since I am looking at the screen and not at the subject, people tend to behave more naturally. I also try to set up so I get the shot before I am told "no photos."
My worst example of this photo frenzy was when a hotdog vendor started yelling "Neeger". Since I was with my family I did not respond at all but to take a few more shots. It can get dicey out there.
I think it will be important for you to review your technique to see if there is something you can do to minimize the frenzy because this can go in any direction.
Each situation is different but I find that by appearing disinterested works for me most of the time.
2 securities guards in two days harassed me. To the first one, I tried to be friendly and explain why I took a photo of what I took a photo of. He wasn't buying it, so then I just called them a few names and took my photos anyway. I have nothing to hide.
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