am i really about to return my first camera to the store?

[Spyro]

If you are happy with the f4.5 max aperture, it should work (minus the said mushy edges)

 

[emraphoto]

alright, so it isn't that effective of a workaround...

 

[Vince Lupo]

That's the problem that I had with the Voigtlander lenses as well. After I got my E-P2, a friend of mine said 'boy, I guess you can't wait to try some of your wide angle Voigtlander lenses on this camera'. Um, not with a maximum f/4.5 aperture I wasn't!

As a total aside, I'm sorry but everybody's hearing must be much more sensitive than mine, because some of you guys are making the E-P2's shutter sound like a Rollei SL66 or something. Admittedly, I can't speak about the E-P1, but the E-P2's shutter sound isn't exactly going to wake the dead. But it could be just the wax buildup in my ears!

 

[emraphoto]

I wouldn't rate the EP-1's shutter as a major concern. I found it fairly quiet actually.

 

[parsec1]

Yes on serious consideration I think you are right John.
I wish it were otherwise.
PD

 

[sfaust]

I got to a stage where I'd look for an object at roughly 3m away, focus on that and leave it there. Nope, the lens would reset itself after a few shots! Unbelievable

If you turn off 'lens reset', that won't happen anymore. I turn off lens reset, select S-AF to Mode 3. This allows you to press the AFL/AEL button to focus at a specific distance, and focus won't change from that distance until you press the AFL/AEL button again. Pressing the shutter half way will only set the exposure and not refocus. The focus stays where it is even when powering off/on. Effectively, you have a fixed focus lens that will only change when the AFL/AEL is pressed. (I think you can also set it to the FN button as well).

It doesn't solve your other problems with the camera, but for those looking for a workable pre-set focus solution for street shooting, this works. If you set manual exposure as well, the shutter release is very fast.

There are a couple of things you can do that will help you work around the limitations of the camera:

In the Cog | AF/MF menu
Set AF mode to S-AF+MF then use <AEl/AFL> to pre focus.
Set Reset Lens to OFF

This will allow you to prefocus the lens and have it stay where you last focused it even when the camera is turned off.
It will also fire as close to instantaneous as it can now.

If you want to see how a camera user interface should be done, with full manual controls , have a look at the Ricoh GRD-III.

Donald.

It's important NOT to use the S-AF+MF mode. If you do and happen to touch the front focus ring, it will change the focus from the pre-set position since it will assume you are sing the +MF feature. If you use S-AF only, it disables the focus ring and you can spin the focus ring all day long without it changing.

You are right, it can be a slow camera. To make it faster to operate, use manual exposure. If you are used to shooting film, especially with slide film, it is n

I agree. Set it up like a manual film camera street shooter (set ISO, manual exposure, pre-set focus, etc), and its quite fast on the shutter release. I'd still rather have fast AE and AF, but I never had those shooting the manual rangefinders either



I also can't understand why the manufactures just don't get what advanced photographers want in a compact camera. I think they are marketing to the P&S crowd that wants more control, but not the complexity of a DSLR of back to basics manual functionality. Perhaps 'our' market is a lot smaller than we realize, and secondary to the consumer P&S market, and thus a reduced priority to the manufactuers.

I'd love to see a cross between a R-D1s and the Contact G2, with manual dials or controls for shutter, aperture, ISO, exp comp, mode, and a very fast and easy menu selection such as the Super Control Panel for secondary functions (white balance, file/mode selection, drive mode, stabilization, etc). Oh, and of source a decent viewfinder with basic display info (ss, aperture, exp comp, frames left, etc), and of course the largest sensor that will fit.

Until that shows up, I'll have to find the best of whats left and use that rather than forgo a compact altogether, or go back to a film compact. And so far, the E-P1 while not perfect, is the best of the compacts that I've found other then the G10/G11 series. Once I read the manual, I found the menu setup quite reasonable with the exception of naming the sections by a letter (A, B, C, etc). I would have preferred an icon over a letter, but better yet, whats wrong with an actual meaningful name . The rest seems pretty straightforward and easy to get to what I want to change without any trouble. So I'll stick with it until something better comes along, and use the DSLR or Digital MF with I need top digital performance.

 

[parsec1]

Stephen :- a cross between a RD1s and a Contax G2..a real photojournalist's camera is what you must be thinking of. How wonderfull ! I'll take 3 NOW .
Just to add I'll still keep my D3s and D700 and all the lenses 14mm-300 2.8 that I own and still upgrade to the new models when available.
There's no issues of competition between 'Evil' SLRs and rangefinders it just a fact that many of us need both as any cabinet maker needs more than one plane or engineer more than one lathe. How long is it going to take for camera makers to see the penny/dollar drop. Heaven/paradise help us all at the crass stupidity of it.

 

[Pascal]

Manufacturers are making cameras that sell. Not everyone.... infact, probably less than 5% of the consumers OEM's have in mind want a EP1/EP2 Camera with a full frame sensor or one that takes pictures that are stunning. People want simple point and shoots that take a decent picture where they are happy if they can make out the faces in the picture.


Why would anyone bother spending the $$$ to make a camera the size of an EP1 with a full frame sensor when no one would want to pay the $$$'s to buy it. Leica tried with the X1 - a superb camera with a decent sensor - not exactly something everyone can afford.
Sigma has the DP series of compacts - slow and cumbersome - requires post processing to get the best out of them - not many consumers want to have naything to do with post processing.

I would give it some time - until one of the big OEM's decides to release a camera the size of a Contax T and a lens performance to match - with a full frame sensor capable of shooting ISO 6400 with zero noise and costing around $500 (should happen in 10 years or less).

 

[Vince Lupo]

I think Pascal has a good point in terms of what the public wants, while making those of us who want something a little 'better' somewhat happy.

I've been very pleased with the performance and results with my E-P2, and while it doesn't deliver quite the quality or file size of my D700, for my personal and commercial purposes, it's just fine. I don't think the general public really cares about noise levels at ISO 1600 -- heck, I could count on one hand the times when I've shot film at ISO 1600 over the past 30 years, so it really doesn't matter to me either. But here again, we're all different, and some cameras will fit within our needs (and wallets!), and some won't.

I was just thinking of this today -- eventually they might have cameras that will allow someone to log on to a site and see what you are shooting in real time. So if you're an art director who has hired you for a job (like an event), they'd be able to see each of the photos you're taking at the moment you're taking them, and then instantly email them to the client as you're shooting.

Hmm.....come to think of it, that might not be such a good idea!

 

[Spyro]

If you turn off 'lens reset', that won't happen anymore.

Thanks. I think I might have worked that out eventually when I had the camera.
But.
I can live with workarounds (like finding a brick wall at an estimated correct distance and focusing on that) when using a cheap camera. But with a $1k camera? That has all sorts of useless options, like selecting if the lens will focus clockwise or counterclockwise? Just because Oly forgot the distance scale? Nope

This seems like a small thing but it's crucial: take precise timing of shots away from a p/j-street shooter and he's basically screwed. I find it unacceptable that 50 years ago you had the option of shooting instantaniously (prefocused) with even the cheapest camera but in 2010 you have to wait for a $1k camera to go bzt-bzzzt or go looking for brick walls and workarounds against the camera's "systems".

Having said all that, I think these cameras are a great hope for the future but they are still in their infancy, it takes time. Good effort, just not there yet. Competition and time will help.

At the moment I reckon all the components exist, just not on the same camera. My ideal p/j-street-take everywhere digital camera would have:
-X1 sensor. Doesnt have to be full frame. It is actually an advantage to have a smaller (but capable) sensor: wider lenses, easier to hit the dof, smaller lenses at every aperture value.
-X1 shutter. Fast and quiet.
-DP1/DP2 focusing dial. It is simple, mechanical, accurate and intuitive.
-X1 form factor and dials. Doesnt get simpler and more intuitive than that.
-Panasonic 20/1.7 lens: Usable combination of aperture and focal length without destroying the camera's real advantage which is pocketability. If they can add a wider one at f2 or even 2.8 without sacrificing size that would be awesome. I'd love to see Zeiss, Leica and CV make small interchangeable proprietary lenses with smaller image circles for this type of sensor.
-Panaleica buffer and processing chip. Looks fast and good enough to me.
-AF? I dont need it but if it has to have it, Panny and EP2 seem to have done a good enough job. It will get better with newer versions.

What's missing? A viewfinder. I absolutely love the idea of TTL viewing with an EVF in a mirrorless camera, I reckon it is groundbreaking and eliminates a rangefinder's biggest disadvantage (IMO) which is not seeing what you shoot. It will add precision, using the whole VF with any lens (no framelines) and for those who care, live view, macro and tele options.

BUT, please please please put it IN the camera NOT on top! Start messing with the camera's form factor and pocketability and you start defeating this camera's only real advantage. I will start contemplating a small-ish DSLR instead. Plenty out there, a modern Pentax for example will crap allover any m4:3 camera in every respect and will almost match it in price.

 

[novum]

Common situation for all cameras..

You've got to be aware that artificial lighting goes to 50 (or 60) cycles per second. You think it's consistent, but the camera meters at one moment in the cycle and exposes at another..

You'll find exposure much more consistent when the shutter speed is a lot slower than that, and at least as slow as 1/30.

Are you sure about that? Fluorescents, sure, they'll flicker, but I have a hard time believing that tungsten lighting will flicker noticeably, since the filaments stay well-heated throughout the AC cycle.

 

[novum]

I could already see that the EP-1 would be useless for spur-of-the-moment shots.

That was one good thing about the Ricoh GR-D: snap mode. Super fast response. But I sold it because I just didn't cotton to the Digital Way.