McFlurry
Member
Hello everyone! Been reading around here a while, and thought I would ask a few questions, while also looking for a few opinions from the very knowledgeable (And very mature from what I've seen so far) crowd here on the forums.
I've been very interested in Rangefinders as of late, and have been looking for a camera to break into the style with. I can't (and shouldn't) start with a Leica like most people, but if I get into the style enough, an investment into a Leica M2 or 3 may be possible if I save up enough
Been shooting since I was 8 (now 19) and have used both a Nikon SLR, DSLR, and currently a Canon 550D.
My question(s) for you are as follows: What are your opinions on a camera / lens combo for a beginner rangefinder user? My budget would be around 500-700 dollars at most. My idea was to find a budget camera that used Leica M mount lenses, so if I really enjoyed shooting, I could carry over any lenses to my next body purchase.
I shoot mostly outdoors, lots of landscape around town. Been trying to get into street photography but I feel a bit awkward carrying around a large dslr in my hands.
I have been googling around for the past few days, but didn't come up with too much, other than everyone saying that Leica M2's are at their lowest right now, so its easy for some "hobbyists with a bit of cash" to pick up, but not for an upcoming student myself ^_^
I have a few film related questions, but I'll have to wait until I at least decide on a camera first, then ask the related film questions to said camera.
Thanks for reading, and thanks in advance to any help that comes my way.
PS: Disregard the forum name, I was simply browsing around the room for an idea and saw the empty McFlurry cup on my desk from earlier xD
I've been very interested in Rangefinders as of late, and have been looking for a camera to break into the style with. I can't (and shouldn't) start with a Leica like most people, but if I get into the style enough, an investment into a Leica M2 or 3 may be possible if I save up enough
Been shooting since I was 8 (now 19) and have used both a Nikon SLR, DSLR, and currently a Canon 550D.
My question(s) for you are as follows: What are your opinions on a camera / lens combo for a beginner rangefinder user? My budget would be around 500-700 dollars at most. My idea was to find a budget camera that used Leica M mount lenses, so if I really enjoyed shooting, I could carry over any lenses to my next body purchase.
I shoot mostly outdoors, lots of landscape around town. Been trying to get into street photography but I feel a bit awkward carrying around a large dslr in my hands.
I have been googling around for the past few days, but didn't come up with too much, other than everyone saying that Leica M2's are at their lowest right now, so its easy for some "hobbyists with a bit of cash" to pick up, but not for an upcoming student myself ^_^
I have a few film related questions, but I'll have to wait until I at least decide on a camera first, then ask the related film questions to said camera.
Thanks for reading, and thanks in advance to any help that comes my way.
PS: Disregard the forum name, I was simply browsing around the room for an idea and saw the empty McFlurry cup on my desk from earlier xD
Messsucherkamera
Established
Take a look at the Leica CL
Take a look at the Leica CL
With your price range of $500-700, I would encourage you to take a good hard look at the Leica CL and the 40mm f/2.0 Summicron lens made for it.
The camera body was actually built for Leica by Minolta and there is a Minolta branded version as well as a Minolta built lens. It is a little more costly, but I would highly recommend the Leica 40mm Summicron, which was made by Leica in Wetzlar, Germany. It is said to be a fantastic little lens and a great buy for the money.
Here is a good web page on the Leica CL: http://www.cameraquest.com/leicacl.htm
I don't have a CL and the 40 Summicron yet, but am planning to grab one as soon as I can. A couple of good places to shop for a CL are Camera West and Sherry Krauter's Golden Touch (Google them).
Take a look at the Leica CL
With your price range of $500-700, I would encourage you to take a good hard look at the Leica CL and the 40mm f/2.0 Summicron lens made for it.
The camera body was actually built for Leica by Minolta and there is a Minolta branded version as well as a Minolta built lens. It is a little more costly, but I would highly recommend the Leica 40mm Summicron, which was made by Leica in Wetzlar, Germany. It is said to be a fantastic little lens and a great buy for the money.
Here is a good web page on the Leica CL: http://www.cameraquest.com/leicacl.htm
I don't have a CL and the 40 Summicron yet, but am planning to grab one as soon as I can. A couple of good places to shop for a CL are Camera West and Sherry Krauter's Golden Touch (Google them).
hteasley
Pupil
You don't have to dive into Leica right away, or at all. You can find a lot of good rangefinder bodies on ebay that take Leica thread-mount (LTM, also known as M39 mount) lenses, which was a standard for a long time that many manufacturers used. Should you want to get an M-mount camera later, LTM lenses can still be used with a simple adapter.
Something like a Canon 7 or a FED or a Zorki can be had for not much cash, and any LTM lens you get will work on any Leica you might consider later.
Something like a Canon 7 or a FED or a Zorki can be had for not much cash, and any LTM lens you get will work on any Leica you might consider later.
ChrisN
Striving
I picked up a Canon QL 19 rangefinder recently for $20 at a flea-market. Nice (fixed) lens; 45mm and f/1.9 maximum aperture. Most people would find it difficult to distinguish the results from those produced with my Leica. Very compact and discrete (and it doesn't look serious - non-threatening). Auto-exposure too. Do you want to dive in at the deep end, with a fully manual camera? With many of the cheaper LTM cameras that is a given.
ColSebastianMoran
( IRL Richard Karash )
I had the same question. I decided the thing to do was to buy a fixed lens rangefinder and see how I like this style of shooting.
In my case, I went with Yashica, and I'm having a good time. If this plays out, I'll move up from here. (If you try a Yashica, you want one that's serviced and reliable; the $20 cameras on eBay are neither.)
In my case, I went with Yashica, and I'm having a good time. If this plays out, I'll move up from here. (If you try a Yashica, you want one that's serviced and reliable; the $20 cameras on eBay are neither.)
zachary
Member
A Bessa. Should be able to pick up a user for <$450. An R3A + 40 nokton (M mount) is an excellent setup.
huntjump
Well-known
I started with an m2, i really was hooked. I picked up a decent user body for $500 and if you got a cv lens (if you could budget $800?) then you'd have a really nice setup that could EASILY be sold if you needed to and recover your costs. I would say, if you have $800 sitting in a bank, invest it in a leica and just take care of your equipment. The value will hold or even increase, so you will outperform any bank
Brian Legge
Veteran
Canon P + Canon 50mm 1.8 is a good, relatively low risk and price entry point (assuming the camera and lens are in good condition). Ought to run than $350-500.
jammcat
Lick My Lens Cap
Don't listen to people telling you to buy leica, zeiss, or what have you.
Pick up a sub-$100 rangefinder and see if you like shooting with it first.
The Canonet QL17 III is an excellent, user-friendly camera. It's lens holds up quite nicely to far more expensive ones in it's focal range. Give it a try to see if you like it. It's by no means a "starter camera", and if you only need one focal length it could very well be your only rangefinder.
http://camerapedia.wikia.com/wiki/Canon_Canonet_QL_17_GIII
If you do want to get into the LTM/M mount world and would actually like a camera with a good meter and functionality, try buying a second-hand Voigtlander Bessa with a lens in the focal length of your choosing. For the price of an M2 or M3 you could easily pick up a used bessa with a couple of lenses a more functional camera with better ergonomics.
Pick up a sub-$100 rangefinder and see if you like shooting with it first.
The Canonet QL17 III is an excellent, user-friendly camera. It's lens holds up quite nicely to far more expensive ones in it's focal range. Give it a try to see if you like it. It's by no means a "starter camera", and if you only need one focal length it could very well be your only rangefinder.
http://camerapedia.wikia.com/wiki/Canon_Canonet_QL_17_GIII
If you do want to get into the LTM/M mount world and would actually like a camera with a good meter and functionality, try buying a second-hand Voigtlander Bessa with a lens in the focal length of your choosing. For the price of an M2 or M3 you could easily pick up a used bessa with a couple of lenses a more functional camera with better ergonomics.
alan davus
Well-known
Ditto, ditto, ditto!!!
BillBingham2
Registered User
There are dozens of great fixed lens RF cameras.
http://www.cameraquest.com/classics.htm
I loved the Konica S2, lusted after the S3, have heard great things about so many others. I still have my Konica IIIM (no meter) that is wonderful to use, great lens. Olympus XA is a fun camera but a small viewfinder to some people.
If you want to get into a interchangeable lenses Bessas are great (do not forget older ones (e.g. L, T, R) as they are fun camera. Another great choice is the Nikon S2 and a 50/1.4 lens. No meter (unlike the Bessas) but a 1:1 view finder which is a LOT of fun to shoot with (both eyes open).
Read Stephens site, it's full of TONS of great information.
Beware of Evil-Bay as cameras are not always in the same condition as you read/see. Take a look here at the classifieds you have much higher odds of getting a great deal and a wonderful new camera.
B2
http://www.cameraquest.com/classics.htm
I loved the Konica S2, lusted after the S3, have heard great things about so many others. I still have my Konica IIIM (no meter) that is wonderful to use, great lens. Olympus XA is a fun camera but a small viewfinder to some people.
If you want to get into a interchangeable lenses Bessas are great (do not forget older ones (e.g. L, T, R) as they are fun camera. Another great choice is the Nikon S2 and a 50/1.4 lens. No meter (unlike the Bessas) but a 1:1 view finder which is a LOT of fun to shoot with (both eyes open).
Read Stephens site, it's full of TONS of great information.
Beware of Evil-Bay as cameras are not always in the same condition as you read/see. Take a look here at the classifieds you have much higher odds of getting a great deal and a wonderful new camera.
B2
dovi
Well-known
workflow
workflow
I would advise that you look at the work flow before committing any serious cash.
camera/lens/ film
Processing/scanning costs
A small fixed lens unit will let you get a feel for the costs involved.
Get a good idea before you jump in. I develop my BW and tend to use digital for color because of the costs for processing. I also hate waiting.
I find it to be more costly when others have to process and scan for me.
I think you'll be fine with it all
workflow
I would advise that you look at the work flow before committing any serious cash.
camera/lens/ film
Processing/scanning costs
A small fixed lens unit will let you get a feel for the costs involved.
Get a good idea before you jump in. I develop my BW and tend to use digital for color because of the costs for processing. I also hate waiting.
I find it to be more costly when others have to process and scan for me.
I think you'll be fine with it all
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Don't listen to ANYONE who tells you not to listen to anyone else!
Seriously, a lot depends on personality and finances. I bought my first Leica (a IIIa) when I was your age, and I've been using 'em ever since: I got my first M when I was 23. I'm now 61.
Personally, I disagree totally with those who suggest that you buy a fixed-lens camera 'to see if you like RFs'. To me, that's like buying a McDo burger to see if you like beef.
I also disagree with those who suggest Leica screw-mount, as M-mount will give you vastly more versatility. After all, you can put screw-mount lenses on an M-mount (and I often do), bu not vice versa. In other words, I think your original idea of an M-mount is best.
Your budget might just stretch to a usable Leica M, but in your situation I think I'd be more inclined to go for an M-mount Bessa. I prefer the mechanical versions, because I like the meters better and the shutters aren't battery dependent.
You might find the module on my site about rangefinders to be of interest: http://www.rogerandfrances.com/subscription/ps rf.html
and also the one about Leicas:http://www.rogerandfrances.com/subscription/leicaphilia.html
Oh: and welcome to the forum.
Cheers,
R.
Seriously, a lot depends on personality and finances. I bought my first Leica (a IIIa) when I was your age, and I've been using 'em ever since: I got my first M when I was 23. I'm now 61.
Personally, I disagree totally with those who suggest that you buy a fixed-lens camera 'to see if you like RFs'. To me, that's like buying a McDo burger to see if you like beef.
I also disagree with those who suggest Leica screw-mount, as M-mount will give you vastly more versatility. After all, you can put screw-mount lenses on an M-mount (and I often do), bu not vice versa. In other words, I think your original idea of an M-mount is best.
Your budget might just stretch to a usable Leica M, but in your situation I think I'd be more inclined to go for an M-mount Bessa. I prefer the mechanical versions, because I like the meters better and the shutters aren't battery dependent.
You might find the module on my site about rangefinders to be of interest: http://www.rogerandfrances.com/subscription/ps rf.html
and also the one about Leicas:http://www.rogerandfrances.com/subscription/leicaphilia.html
Oh: and welcome to the forum.
Cheers,
R.
cosmonaut
Well-known
I think you should go ahead and just get a M mount body. The value of them just goes up. It's money in the bank if you don't like it. My M6 is worth as much as I give for it several years ago.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
astro8
Well-known
I like this idea, reason being is that if your first rangefinder camera doesn't have a really good viewfinder you may be severely disappointed.
If I had picked up the Canon IIF as my first rangefinder instead of the R-D1 (with it's great viewfinder) I would have been horrified.
For me the IIF is not unlike peeping through a pinhole.
added...I should have stated for the original poster that the R-D1 has the same type viewfinder as the Bessa.
gavinlg
Veteran
Voigtlander bess a line - the r2a is a good start. The VF's are just as good (if not better) than a leicas.
Andrea Taurisano
il cimento
Totally agree. Get a used Bessa in decent conditions, well within your budget. With its bright viewfinder it's way more likely to make you a new RF lover than a cheaper or less usable alternative. I tried a Russian copy of an early Leica once: didn't even accept it free of charge as the "seller" just asked me to take it home and use it (and only now am realising he didn't ask me to use it TO TAKE PHOTOS ;-).
Red Robin
It Is What It Is
Choosing that first rangefinder
Choosing that first rangefinder
Choosing that first rangefinder
Like the others I would suggest you look at the Bessas,the Canons P's and the Leica's. These are all fine cameras that last. Choose one that "fits" your hands,(size& weigh) and eye(view finder). This will probably not be your last camera purchace but if you can, buy the best, as most are always happy with the best. Cry once!
Damaso
Photojournalist
I'd go with a used Bessa and used les, either 35 or 50mm depending on what you prefer. I actually started with a Bessa R and a CV 35mm. A very good combo...