Amazed that Shell thread was closed

phillip, i do feel insulted. i have been a part of this forum since day one and i resent when it is referred to in a derogatory manner, i.e. 'only' a gear forum, 'let's get back to talking about camera bags' etc. and the reality is that the folks complaining the loudest and the longest just want to 'win', they want to 'be right' and have all others be wrong. that is insulting. many want thing run their way but lack the ambition to start their own sites so they knock those that do. gandy gets knocked for being in the camera business and owning this site. what childish and rude and insulting behaviours.
and then others want me to point out what is 'rude', do the work yourselves, i say. and if they truly can't recognize what it rude and insulting then thank goodness i am here to do it for you!

i am insulted.
 
pesphoto said:
How can we end all this arguing?
Click to expand...

That's easy. Turn down the level of censorship and allow freer speech and self moderation.

Anyway, arguments, per se, are not bad. Whether in business, social life or relationships, they allow expression, passion and creative exchange of ideas to happen. They also cause you to question your own views and in those quiet moments, to reflect on what the other person was trying to say. If applied intelligently, the output and consequences of an argument will in itself be moderating.

Over zealous controls, policing and censorship have the opposite effect.

Regards
Ernst
 
ernstk said:
I do try to....

Seriously 'tho, did the Romans not run Wales and Cornwall?

Ernst
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No, they had areas under control and outposts and scuttled between forts on the fringes but neither was fully 'conquered'. But then nor was much of of the rest of mainland Europe. The Roman administration used mercenaries, formed partnerships with local tribes etc to control areas but the idea of total Roman domination is a bit misleading. Besides, tribal movements were almost constant so nothing was fully controlled for any great length of time before another lot of troublemakers turned up and caused grief.
Not to diminish their achievements of course. Often times, there was a very valid reason they didn't completely conquer an area... 🙂
 
Hi Joe,

I'll be writing a couple of things in a more outspoken fashion. When reading, please remember that I am not trying to insult you, or be rude to you, or whatever. Also note that I am struggling with English as a second language.

back alley said:
phillip, i do feel insulted. i have been a part of this forum since day one and i resent when it is referred to in a derogatory manner, i.e. 'only' a gear forum, 'let's get back to talking about camera bags' etc. and the reality is that the folks complaining the loudest and the longest just want to 'win', they want to 'be right' and have all others be wrong.
Click to expand...
Well I don't think it's as easy as that. For example on this thread, you have Raid suggesting Luigi camera bags as an alternative topic; do you think Raid, of all persons, just wants to "win" or to "be right"? I think in reality it is more complex than that. People are getting a bit worried by moderating behaviour which, in a forum in which they like to participate precisely because there's more than gear and cases and bags to be discussed, is perceived as disruptive. To me at least, over the last months it has certainly seemed that on RFF gear discussions are unproblematic, while much that goes beyond that runs a fair chance of being disrupted at some point. I think I can say that without "wanting to have all others be wrong". Am I insulting you, or referring to RFF in a derogatory manner, by saying so?

back alley said:
gandy gets knocked for being in the camera business and owning this site.
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I don't think so. I think if people have a problem with his moderating behaviour or other aspects of the way he runs the site, it's probably more specific than that. This is probably not the place to discuss that.

back alley said:
and then others want me to point out what is 'rude', do the work yourselves, i say. and if they truly can't recognize what it rude and insulting then thank goodness i am here to do it for you!
Click to expand...
No, Joe. That's not how it works. You are a moderator. You are always there, watching over and judging what you consider my rudeness. You can close my threads and delete my posts and delete my user account if you consider my postings rude. Since our individual decency thresholds apparently differ and since you mentioned rudeness on this thread and since rudeness is grounds for thread closure and/or deletion, it would at least be nice to know where I (or whoever) on this (IMHO rather harmless) thread have violated your interpretation of RFF's rules of decency, so that I can consider this when writing my next posting in order not to have it deleted.

Also note that this is not a question of "rights", it's just a question of courtesy to save me from wasting time and effort. Over the last months there have been at least three instances where I wrote long and elaborate postings (to gear-related threads, if I might add) and took considerable time to research them, only to find that in the time that had passed someone had closed the thread for reasons that I sometimes found hard to understand. This can get quite frustrating. You don't have to answer any of this, but it certainly would be nice.

back alley said:
i am insulted.
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A suggestion would be at least not to moderate while insulted. Ire is a bad counselor.

Philipp
 
Guys, cut the heat. Joe is among the best and calmest mods I've seen in online communities (and I've seen quite a few) but now he must be really counting his posts down to 20k.

Think rather whom you might get as replacement..
 
Alex, with all due respect, stop asking for examples and just go on being respectful. It gets tiring over time seeing the same discussions defending quite honestly trash. I don't see anything over the line here, but this is the zillionth thread down the line. We are not going to point out the trash so it can be kicked around some more.

I would like to ask a question. The answer is significant, because I honestly believe a little more transparency in the process would make the moderator's lives easier. When the decision is taken to close a thread or otherwise censor or stifle debate, is that decision taken by a single moderator, or is there consultation between moderators?
Click to expand...

The simple answer is both. It is often easy to pick up on threads early and identify the ones which everyone knows is going to go south, and we keep each other informed when we see them. We also discuss flames that we see when they happen, or ask if we have questions. And if we see rude offensive posts, we deal with them and make comment afterwards.
 
I for one am enjoying the Scots-Saxon banter here -- though I don't understand half of the references! Makes for an interesting counterpoint to the main discussion, rather like a rock station that keeps coming interfering with a talk show on another station.
 
KoNickon said:
I for one am enjoying the Scots-Saxon banter here -- though I don't understand half of the references! Makes for an interesting counterpoint to the main discussion, rather like a rock station that keeps coming interfering with a talk show on another station.
Click to expand...

I think it's worth observing. We're attacking each other's countries. We're cheerfully claiming to have killed many thousands of each others ancestors. One has even gone as far as to suggest that Scottish young ladies have been applying sandpaper to their bottoms, in preference to softly padded toilet tissue.

And have we fallen out, got rude, aggressive or unpleasant? No, we haven't.

See, we can self moderate, even under the most extreme and malicious of provocations.

Regards
Ernst
 
you can close a thread, but as is being shown here you cant stop people talking about something if they really want to! I have no idea who the guy (Shell) was, but I can say the thread was far more interesting than those sleep inducing threads on whether a silver camera is better than a black one ? people have different beliefs and philosophies, we should all embrace those, and simply ignore those who chose to be ignorant and or offensive.
 
back alley said:
there was no objection to the subject, there was objection to how it was being discussed.
it was getting rude and self righteous, much like this thread is.

and to be clear...i invited no one to leave but i will again point out that if rff is not up to your liking or your standards than feel free to find a site that is - or better yet, start your own sites and let the members run it to their liking.

joe
Click to expand...

I agee. That thgread was starting to get very un-civil. And I'm only a third of the way through this one and see that tine creeping in already...
 
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