An Article About The X-T1's Design
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Addy101
Well-known
Nice infomercial - just wondering if Fuji paid for it. What surprised me the most was the remark that "I could have chosen an ergonomic style but our X design is completely different." Odd choice imho.
willie_901
Veteran
Oh, I sure Fujifilm bribed them with boatloads of money, booze and sexual favors.
Because the X-T1 is a piece of junk no doubt they had to pay twice the going rate other brands pay for similar articles
Because the X-T1 is a piece of junk no doubt they had to pay twice the going rate other brands pay for similar articles
Addy101
Well-known
I feel you didn't like my remark that Fuji may have paid for it. It would be a sound business decision by Fuji if they paid for it - if they didn't, the better. Since I hit a nerve, I looked further and found the ethics statement of The Verge and they state "We do not accept money or other consideration from companies as a condition or incentive to write a review or story, whether favorable or unfavorable, on The Verge. All reviews and other editorial on The Verge are based on our editorial discretion, and not based on the desire of any company, advertiser or PR firm. Our editorial staff may not interact with the sales or marketing teams of companies or advertisers that offer products that may be reviewed by us." So, it seems, Fuji didn't pay for it. :angel:
Still, I think the article isn't as critical as it could or should be for a serious journalism website, but maybe that isn't what The Verge is about.
But the real queation remains: why would you design a camera that is intentionally not ergonomical?
Still, I think the article isn't as critical as it could or should be for a serious journalism website, but maybe that isn't what The Verge is about.
But the real queation remains: why would you design a camera that is intentionally not ergonomical?
olakiril
Well-known
Cause it is design (& marketing) that got Fuji where it is now. It was neither price, nor image quality, nor ergonomics.
Although I would argue that the rangefinder style OVF is very ergonomic.
GaryLH
Veteran
Ok fan boy type comment...
There are only two companies right now that are best of breed when it comes to back to basics..
- Leica (never left the drf roots) - the number one in this regard.. I don't own a Leica drf.
- Fuji who does not I want to go drf (even though they could), but instead have concentrated on doing a retro look of other cameras looks..
Both these companies do give u a camera that gives u your basic controls where u don't have to turn on the camera to know what u have setup. They do not feel like a computer in a camera w/ at best a PSAM control dial and everything else is on a an LCD or evf display.
It is not to say the Fuji is not a computer in a camera w/ all the additional functionality the have in their cameras, but they tend to consistently be the next best after Leica in terms of back to basics blended w/ modern functionality.
Other companies have tried w/ IMHO limited success..Nikon df and Panasonic lx100 for example..of which lx100 appeals to me the most..but the rest of the Panasonic line is more PSAM computers.
Gary
There are only two companies right now that are best of breed when it comes to back to basics..
- Leica (never left the drf roots) - the number one in this regard.. I don't own a Leica drf.
- Fuji who does not I want to go drf (even though they could), but instead have concentrated on doing a retro look of other cameras looks..
Both these companies do give u a camera that gives u your basic controls where u don't have to turn on the camera to know what u have setup. They do not feel like a computer in a camera w/ at best a PSAM control dial and everything else is on a an LCD or evf display.
It is not to say the Fuji is not a computer in a camera w/ all the additional functionality the have in their cameras, but they tend to consistently be the next best after Leica in terms of back to basics blended w/ modern functionality.
Other companies have tried w/ IMHO limited success..Nikon df and Panasonic lx100 for example..of which lx100 appeals to me the most..but the rest of the Panasonic line is more PSAM computers.
Gary
f16sunshine
Moderator
Some will burn me for this one.... Ergonomic is still a subjective thing!
Industrial design in regards to cameras has been with us long enough that we should call up a new category...... "Cultural Ergonomics".
Cultural ergomics being the designing of products with instant user familiarity.
I think Fuji has done an astoundingly good job with this.
Anyone who has been around cameras knows the ring on the lens is for aperture... it's muscle memory at this point for most when they pick up the camera.
Same with the dials. One has shutter speeds. Another has +/- stops... it's all very familiar.
Compare that to the Canon Eos system which frankly is much more traditionally ergonomic... the aperture is adjusted with a control dial directly under the index finger the same as shutter speed.
Exposure comp is with the thumb on another dial. All displayed clearly in the VF.
Complain if you will but it's all much more "ergonomic".
I try to argue with this reasoning and can not. My Canons spend much more time at my eye than the Fujis.
From the satndpoint of ergonomics in relation to the human hand... Canon deserves credit for the eos design.
It's not what Fuji and many other "traditionalist" users want (myself included).
So ergonomics in the context of designing a camera are really not ergonomics as truly defined.
It seems simply enough to understand what Fuji is doing.
Industrial design in regards to cameras has been with us long enough that we should call up a new category...... "Cultural Ergonomics".
Cultural ergomics being the designing of products with instant user familiarity.
I think Fuji has done an astoundingly good job with this.
Anyone who has been around cameras knows the ring on the lens is for aperture... it's muscle memory at this point for most when they pick up the camera.
Same with the dials. One has shutter speeds. Another has +/- stops... it's all very familiar.
Compare that to the Canon Eos system which frankly is much more traditionally ergonomic... the aperture is adjusted with a control dial directly under the index finger the same as shutter speed.
Exposure comp is with the thumb on another dial. All displayed clearly in the VF.
Complain if you will but it's all much more "ergonomic".
I try to argue with this reasoning and can not. My Canons spend much more time at my eye than the Fujis.
From the satndpoint of ergonomics in relation to the human hand... Canon deserves credit for the eos design.
It's not what Fuji and many other "traditionalist" users want (myself included).
So ergonomics in the context of designing a camera are really not ergonomics as truly defined.
It seems simply enough to understand what Fuji is doing.
nongfuspring
Well-known
It's true ergonomics are partly subjective, or at least contingent on conditions/habits of use. I like fujis since I can look down at the camera and see the settings before turning the camera on letting me be more predictive and waste less time looking through the viewfinder.
Ergonomics, convenience and functionality are not always mutually inclusive either; big grips are comfortable to hold but also bulky.
That said, I'm still not a fan of the X-T1 design. Great features and no doubt a nice camera to use but I'd much rather a corner viewfinder or at least more handsome looks (I don't think the Fujica was an amazing piece of design, would prefer if the X-T1 followed more in the direction of Kyocera Contaxes). Like the article says, having an SLR hump on a mirrorless camera is conceited, I also don't buy their reasoning that it was the only place to put it.
Ergonomics, convenience and functionality are not always mutually inclusive either; big grips are comfortable to hold but also bulky.
That said, I'm still not a fan of the X-T1 design. Great features and no doubt a nice camera to use but I'd much rather a corner viewfinder or at least more handsome looks (I don't think the Fujica was an amazing piece of design, would prefer if the X-T1 followed more in the direction of Kyocera Contaxes). Like the article says, having an SLR hump on a mirrorless camera is conceited, I also don't buy their reasoning that it was the only place to put it.
Dante_Stella
Rex canum cattorumque
I wouldn't be so charitable to Fuji's designers as the authors of this article. Fuji's design is sometimes really good and sometimes really bad. It's also been tremendously inconsistent and often impractical.
Dante
Dante
willie_901
Veteran
I too prefer the X-Pro 1 for my daily carry even though I own two X-T1s for gigs.
I like the OVF and control layout but I do miss the on-body ISO control. The X-T1 tilt screen is mechanically robust and makes life easier when the camera is on a tripod. Overall I enjoy the X-Pro 1 more.
I too feel Fujifilm's inconsistent button layout from body to body is annoying and doesn't make sense.
I like the OVF and control layout but I do miss the on-body ISO control. The X-T1 tilt screen is mechanically robust and makes life easier when the camera is on a tripod. Overall I enjoy the X-Pro 1 more.
I too feel Fujifilm's inconsistent button layout from body to body is annoying and doesn't make sense.
Bob Michaels
nobody special
Would someone tell me about the tilt screen and how it works? I have an X-T1 that I have been using some for a few months but I had no idea the screen tilted.
GaryLH
Veteran
It pulls out.. Tilts up and down but has limited range. Does not tilt right or left like some other cameras.
Gary
Gary
GaryLH
Veteran
Dante_Stella
Rex canum cattorumque
Speaking of design, did anyone else notice that the X100T control layout is pretty much identical to the Leica M240/246?
- View mode in the same place as live view
- Play in the second button position
- Delete in the third button position
- Menu/set in the same place as FN/WiFi
- Control pad same location on the right
- Control wheel same location
- Top FN button can be programmed to trigger movie mode
This is actually the only change in the Fuji layouts that makes sense - making the X100T easy to use as a second camera for someone with a Leica. That said, having the view mode button at the top right is not a great idea on either camera. At least with the Leica, you can lock out live view when the EVF is not attached.
The X100T is the most elegant design yet; it actually gives you some compactness for that APS-C sensor, it has the big brain of the XF cameras, and its leaf shutter does well with flash.
Dante
- View mode in the same place as live view
- Play in the second button position
- Delete in the third button position
- Menu/set in the same place as FN/WiFi
- Control pad same location on the right
- Control wheel same location
- Top FN button can be programmed to trigger movie mode
This is actually the only change in the Fuji layouts that makes sense - making the X100T easy to use as a second camera for someone with a Leica. That said, having the view mode button at the top right is not a great idea on either camera. At least with the Leica, you can lock out live view when the EVF is not attached.
The X100T is the most elegant design yet; it actually gives you some compactness for that APS-C sensor, it has the big brain of the XF cameras, and its leaf shutter does well with flash.
Dante
MCTuomey
Veteran
What's ergonomic for me (long fingers, large-ish hands) will be different from the next guy, of course. I tried 3 grips on the X-T1 before it worked comfortably for me. Lots of nits on that camera, like the inability to do back-button focus without cramping my thumb or the lack of tactility to many of the controls.
The X-T1's a fine camera for me in many ways, but ergonomic? No. My most ergonomic cameras are Canons. The 1-series is superb, the 5- and 6-series very good. Leica M bodies? I have to add grips and, for the digital models, a thumb rest. Generally speaking, the smaller the camera and the more controls, the less ergonomic it'll be.
The X-T1's a fine camera for me in many ways, but ergonomic? No. My most ergonomic cameras are Canons. The 1-series is superb, the 5- and 6-series very good. Leica M bodies? I have to add grips and, for the digital models, a thumb rest. Generally speaking, the smaller the camera and the more controls, the less ergonomic it'll be.
olakiril
Well-known
Exactly, I can use a D800 for much longer than the X100 which is 1/3 weight. But if X100 looked like a D800 I doubt many would buy it.
GaryLH
Veteran
I put a rrs grip on my x100.. Ended those types of issue for me.
Gary
Gary
willie_901
Veteran
Actually I find the the X-T1 OEM vertical battery grip to improve its ergonomics. I think the grips design balances weight/bulk with usability well. I'd much rather use that set up than a D700.
Dante_Stella
Rex canum cattorumque
This was my comment on it the design, which was inspired by this RFF thread.
https://themachineplanet.wordpress....me-magazines-35mm-camera-and-fujis-direction/
I don't think the designs are particularly inspired. They hybrid viewfinder models are mostly driven by function; the baby SLRs are something else entirely.
Dante
https://themachineplanet.wordpress....me-magazines-35mm-camera-and-fujis-direction/
I don't think the designs are particularly inspired. They hybrid viewfinder models are mostly driven by function; the baby SLRs are something else entirely.
Dante
squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
Dante, I read that piece of yours the other day, and I like it a lot. I'm rather more forgiving of the X-T1's design and mini SLRs as well. It doesn't feel inspired to me so much as familiar and comforting; it's technology that works well and doesn't insert itself too strongly between you and the picture you're taking. I like its clean lines and if feels balanced in the hand. It is definitely pandering to people my age who want to recall the cameras of their youth, but whatev. There are only so many ways for a camera to look, so familiar is fine. And I have to admit to a bias against overly ergonomic cameras. I guess, to clarify my earlier line: I don't want the design to assert itself too strongly, and I don't want it to disappear entirely. The X-T1 feels like a little machine, and I like that. It's what I like about Leicas, too.
I do love the ISO dial SO MUCH and it is primarily why I sold my X-E1 to buy it. ISO on the top plate is wonderful. I hope the X-Pro2 has it.
I do love the ISO dial SO MUCH and it is primarily why I sold my X-E1 to buy it. ISO on the top plate is wonderful. I hope the X-Pro2 has it.
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