An expensive decision

Bill Pierce said:
One other issue… Cal talked about being called a “Leica fanboy” and mentioned two folks who went after him taking about the superiority of Sony to Leica.
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These types are the specs on paper types that always seem to be waging camera wars all over the internet i.e. caught up in what is the "best." However, there is only the best for you. I`ve been called a Fuji fan boy. It`s ok... I am. Fuji`s cameras work well for me in the way that I feel is best for my photography (even if not the best specs on paper).
 
airfrogusmc said:
Bill I guess I have been lucky. I only do stills and I have had the busiest first two quarters I have ever had. I had a great year last year and this years has been a lot busier. I was thinking that i should be slowing down at this point in my career but life sometimes shows you it has a different path. I only do corporate work so I deal with folks that realize that you can be really good at video and not so good at stills and vise versa.

Good luck...
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I think if you have established a successful relationship with clients, they’re not going to give that up. Outside of journalism, I find most of the professionals who are having problems are relatively new to the business or have headed in new directions or are new to that area. No question that the internet is becoming more important and print is declining, but that doesn’t automatically mean stills are out and “movies” are in. While a lot of folks are looking at the potential of moving images, even tradition heavy publications like the New York Times, it’s even more important to folks in the “entertainment industry.” Some of the first still photographers I knew to include short videos in their assignments shot a symphony orchestra and an opera company and a regional theatre. I do some work there, and folks who have used stills in the past are thrilled that they can put interviews and short scenes on the web. I’m lucky in that some of my early work was as a motion picture cameraman. I still have the tripod heads and continuous light sources. Now I just have to learn to edit with a computer instead of scissors and cement.
 
airfrogusmc said:
I have found with video (I had both film and video production class when I was in college and did well in both) you need different skills fro m the skill you need to do still photography.. Motion is a very different way of seeing form finding and freezing moments.
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This is a most important statement. I think you can do both, but they are totally different structures. To oversimplify, one is the moment and one is the narrative. And one added thought - don't try to do both at the same time.
 
Bill Pierce said:
Now I just have to learn to edit with a computer instead of scissors and cement.
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I recommend to check Lightworks. They were one of the first online editors in nineties. Then sold to Textronix and managed to survive after bubble burst. Lightworks was originated by film editors who worked with glue and cutting desks.
https://www.lwks.com/
 
Yes they are very different.
I take stills of horses but I probably take as many if not more videos of them.
Riders want to see their position in relation to the movement of the horse in disciplines like Dressage.

They put the visual information together with their feel and hopefully learn something.

That's a simple use of video to describe a narrative but as you say of a different structure.

I had this conversation on line some time ago with Chris Weeks (I believe you know him Bill).

He was of the opinion that stills work was decreasing and the video was up and coming.
He moved across to Fuji some time ago and is pleased that he did.
 
I'm probably showing my age but I have a prejudice against viewing videos. If I go to a story on a site and the story is only available as a video, I go someplace else. That goes for videos on photo sites as well as news sites. My time is valuable to me. I can read an article quickly enough to grasp what's important but with a video, I'm required to sit through too much extraneous material in which I have no interest just to get to what I'm interested in. That's probably why I have never used any of my cameras in video mode.
 
Video is easy peasy..no harder skill set than photo pics..maybe even easier once you have the right programs..
If you want to be Hollywood anal about your video though.. then yes..a different reality and skill level there..esp lighting..
but for most of us..esp with good lenses..video enhances sale-ability and most importantly..the eye skills..and brain set..
And its fun..and on 4K cameras..you can pull all the stills you like right out of the video..doesnt get better than that for internet stuff..no more decisive moment..needed..
If Leica made an M w/4K..I would buy it right out..as I would luv to do video with a rangefinder..cool from the hip stuff..I like to keep it fun...and that would be my definition of fun..
 
The assumption in this discussion here is centered around the Leica M. Not Leica Cameras.

To my way of thinking, some enjoy the whole process of making an image with a rangefinder. It is a niche product. As such, you pay to play.

At my age, I neither have the eyesight for rangefinder focussing, nor the time to wait for the ' decisive moment ', and with my pension, neither the disposable income to purchase and get Leica Ms service. ( My 2 M7s, it seems have been consigned recently to the history bins!!)

For me, when I use my Leica Ms, it is something to do with a ' supposedly ' more relaxed and considered way of making images.

My digital Nikons, and Fujis often produce better results the my Leica Ms.

But that must be my incompetence.

However, I decided to take my incompetence and let my Nikons and Fujis cameras do all the work. Have them repaired or throw them out. Of course, there is manual mode on them too!!

During this process, I might make one good image out of 10,000.

That, to me , is excellent; for a relatively less pricey camera.
 
Bill Pierce said:
Well, I’ve made my decision about whether to buy an M10 or not. And the reason behind the decision won’t apply to many of the folks on the forum. More and more of professional photography assignments, what we used to think of as “still” photography, now combines stills and motion. We’re not talking about blockbuster movies or even hard hitting documentaries. We’re talking about little 2 minute and 5 minute clips for the web. There are a lot of folks saying, “I just do stills.” and wondering why their workload is diminishing as internet publishing grows and the printed page diminishes. Fortunately, there are a lot of folks saying, “You want pictures that wiggle; I can do that.” The digital cameras that I use now, Fujis, can take “movies.” but not with the ease and quality provided by some of the other mirrorless systems. But that’s changing with the introduction of the H-1. So, the $$$ for a new play toy along with some new lenses will be going to Fuji. Rangefinder fans can take solace in the fact that a lot of Leica lenses will end up on the Fuji simply because manual focus lenses (and a decent camera operator) follow focus more smoothly than most of the automatic systems built into the small mirrorless cameras.

One other issue… Cal talked about being called a “Leica fanboy” and mentioned two folks who went after him taking about the superiority of Sony to Leica. I’ve always been grateful and proud that this sub forum has behaved with courtesy towards each other, especially considering that some of the topics do deal with issues that not everybody agrees on. I’ve only had to have one person blocked from the forum. If the folks who went after Cal did it on this sub forum, I apologize for not catching them. But most of all, I want to thank all the folks who come here and behave well. It’s not something you see everywhere on the internet, and I’m very proud of all of us.
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Bill,

I conceded to these haters that I was on a shoot as a model and the videographer had an Sony A7 all tricked out with a follow focus. He used Leica "R" primes. It was an impressive rig.

The book "American Romance" by Chris Craymer is an inclusive book that perhaps would make Mike Pence uncomfortable. My fashion blogger gal and I were the older couple represented in this coffe table book that just was published.

There was no middleground or tolerance. Pretty much one sided bullying.

Also your threads are a "safeplace" where all are welcomed. Also take advantage of the Leica test drive program. All you need is a photo ID and a credit card and you can borrow a M10 for a few hours. I would be interested if you also borrowed a SL to compare. To me they are very similar cameras, but one is a rangefinder and the other mirrorless.

I think one reason the SL is not so favored is that it is not an M. In my case the SL was a DSLR replacement. If you have "R" glass you might favor the SL. To me better balance. M lenses seem too small on the SL.

Cal
 
This is a most important statement. I think you can do both, but they are totally different structures. To oversimplify, one is the moment and one is the narrative. And one added thought - don't try to do both at the same time.
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The Plot Thickens... One very famous stills photographer who's name we will not mention, commented many moons ago that in video there is one element that overrides all others....which is audio.
 
Peter Wijninga said:
The Plot Thickens... One very famous stills photographer who's name we will not mention, commented many moons ago that in video there is one element that overrides all others....which is audio.
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And it goes to far more than mike selection and prayer. For example, the level of background noise, just the buzz and hum of where you are shooting even when no one is talking, has to be consistent as you cut within the scene. So a good sound man leaves everything running when the scene is over just to record 30 seconds of background noise that can be run under all the cuts. Who would think that you had to record silence?
 
Bill Pierce said:
And it goes to far more than mike selection and prayer. For example, the level of background noise, just the buzz and hum of where you are shooting even when no one is talking, has to be consistent as you cut within the scene. So a good sound man leaves everything running when the scene is over just to record 30 seconds of background noise that can be run under all the cuts. Who would think that you had to record silence?
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Bill,

Nat sound is important. Good mikes are also important.

Another term used: "room sound."

On the pro gigs there is a separate sound guy. Sound is just as important as the video.

For me since I did ENG and was a TV reporter, at time I was sent out as a "one man band" to cover news stories alone. This work was broadcast later that same day on Long Island cable.

This work under hard deadlines has a certain intensity. Not sure I like it.

As it is I remain overly busy as a photographer. Video definitely involves more. Also when I did this ENG Beta was new, we used 1 inch Sony decks and Igagami cameras. Pretty much a full kit with tripod was about 80 pounds of gear and cost $80K. This was broadcast quality back in the day 25 years ago.

Cal
 
A built-in microphone is always just a compromise. It is most time not there where the action
is. Instead it is there where working noise can appear from the camera and the operator.
So any mean external microphone or recorder or smartphone will give us better audio
impressions than an internal one.

When I take videos I try to get a second audio source as often as possible.
You can mix the audio easy afterwards with quick time or sth. else.
 
Axel100 said:
A built-in microphone is always just a compromise. It is most time not there where the action
is. Instead it is there where working noise can appear from the camera and the operator.
So any mean external microphone or recorder or smartphone will give us better audio
impressions than an internal one.

When I take videos I try to get a second audio source as often as possible.
You can mix the audio easy afterwards with quick time or sth. else.
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We were taught to use a shotgun mike on the camera to avoid camera and operating noise. The second mike was a Lav or hand held mike (held by the reporter). We always ran two mikes at a time.

Also allow 5-7 seconds head and tails to your clips to allow flexibility and ease in editing.

Cal
 
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