An odd legal case-Only in America??

[Rick Waldroup]

"Sorry, I'm booked." would have been the smart thing to say.

That is exactly what the photographer should have said.

Instead, they chose to display their bigotry as being the reason for not taking the job.

 

[kmack]

Hmmm...
The story seems to have originated at LifeSiteNews.com. Every other reference I could find used the same sources. I would like see some verification of this story from an independent source.

 

[kevin m]

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof ..."

And if your religion demands cannabis consumption or virgin sacrifice, does the above still apply?

Obviously not. Religion must operate within our system of laws, and discriminating on the basis of race, sexual orientation and the like is simply not allowed.

Perhaps the couple were spoiling for a fight but, again, it was the photographer who started this. A simple "I'm booked" is all that was necessary. Instead they got up on their religious high horse and started this whole mess.

 

[David Murphy]

Kevin, I'm not commenting on whether what they did is right or wrong, I'll leave that to pundits like you. I'm just telling you what the Supreme Court is likely to do in cases where there's a conflict among perceived rights based on their recent decisions (if it gets that far).

And if your religion demands cannabis consumption or virgin sacrifice, does the above still apply?

Obviously not. Religion must operate within our system of laws, and discriminating on the basis of race, sexual orientation and the like is simply not allowed.

Perhaps the couple were spoiling for a fight but, again, it was the photographer who started this. A simple "I'm booked" is all that was necessary. Instead they got up on their religious high horse and started this whole mess.

 

[kevin m]

I'm not commenting on whether what they did is right or wrong

Me either. I'm commenting on whether or not it was legal.

The right to practice your religion doesn't give you the right to break the law. I wasn't being facetious: People have claimed that smoking cannabis was part and parcel of their religion, but that claim was denied. This one will be too, if it ever gets to court. A person's "belief" that homosexuality is a sin is worth bupkus in a court of law.

 

[colyn]

Giving the reason that was cited in the article moves it into another realm ... discrimination

What I find stupid about this argument is when it deals with "Christianity" or a "Christian" everybody cries discrimination....but any other Religion they are just adhering to their religious beliefs.

and, depending on local laws, hate.

Whenever anybody adheres to their religious beliefs someone always wants to make it an act of hate..

 

[colyn]

A person's "belief" that homosexuality is a sin is worth bupkus in a court of law.

As David said if it makes it to the Supreme Court the defendants will win since religious rights are and have been upheld..

 

[wgerrard]

Assuming the blog post is accurate (which I don't) the photographer did not have the right to refuse service. I'd guess there's an odds on chance the photographer thinks abortions should be criminalized. Does he have the right to refuse service to any woman who has had an abortion? Does he have the right to demand medical records to determine if a potential customer has engaged in any activity offensive to his personal beliefs?

If you open a business to serve the public, you do not to get pick and choose which members of the public you serve.

For those who disagree, how would you react if, when you arrived with a camera strapped over your shoulder, a restaurant refused to seat your because they didn't like photographers?

 

[David Murphy]

BTW, before we get all hot-and-bothered about this, as mentioned above, this may indeed be a bogus news story. My Googling shows no other reference to these events except at LifeSite.com

 

[peterc]

But again, if it's her religious belief than to call her up on it is to discriminate against those beliefs - however absurd they appear to others.

Her religious belief is hers and that's fine. She can refuse work that doesn't agree with those beliefs by saying "no". However, to refuse it by saying "I will not do this because you're (whatever)" is discrimination. Most Western countries have laws to prevent this sort of human rights abuse.

 

[colyn]

this may indeed be a bogus news story. My Googling shows no other reference to these events except at LifeSite.com

It's real David.. I just looked it up on the ADF website..

 

[kevin m]

As David said if it makes it to the Supreme Court the defendants will win since religious rights are and have been upheld..

That's a simplistic reading. To paraphrase the old saying: Your right to swing your religion ends where my nose begins.

A person has the right to practice his religious beliefs within the framework of our existing laws. Again: If your religion demands you smoke cannabis (as some West Indies religions evidently do) you cannot legally practice that tenet of your faith in this country.

 

[Rey]

I have alot of doubts concerning this reports credibility. I live in Albuquerque, NM. There is no Elaine Photography here. I have looked in the yellow pages and I do know most of the photographic outfits around town. Nothing. Now they could be in Santa Fe (not a bastion of the Christian right) or Las Cruces (possible), but I can tell you that there is no similar story in the local press here, and there would be if this happened in New Mexico. Also, if this were valid, some other press outfit should have picked it up. Googling it leads only to right-to-life and Christian sources. It's bogus!

 

[bsdunek]

If someone doesn't want to be associated with something they don't believe in, they have that right. I would refuse that job in a minute!!!
Did anyone notice any of the comments with the article? The best was, what if the photographers were Musulim? After all, Amadinajad (sp?) said they don't have homosexuals in Iran (because they kill them).
I don't care if homosexuals want to have some kind of union, just don't ask me to photograph it.
We Christians know right from wrong, and pray for those on the wrong path, but don't always wish to join them.

 

[tripod]

A commercial establishment has the right to refuse a customer service, but it is discrimination if the refusal is based on race, creed (not sure what that is) religion, gender, sexual orientation. A black guy (for instance) can go into a resturant and be refused service because the resturant ran out of food, or because it is currently full, or because it's closing time, or because reservations are needed, etc. with no reprecussions. But it is discrimination to refuse service based on the customer's race, etc. The photographer should have just said sorry I'm booked!

 

[colyn]

A person has the right to practice his religious beliefs within the framework of our existing laws.

Have you read the first amendment to the Constitution?

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

Since this argument has started getting out of hand I'm done...

 

[RF-Addict]

Quote: "We Christians know right from wrong, and pray for those on the wrong path, but don't always wish to join them."

I hope you were kidding. There was more unjustice brought to mankind by Christians than by any other faith, race or country.

 

[wgerrard]

In the US, if the photographer had been Muslum and said no for the same reason would the situation had been different?

No, not at all.

 

[charjohncarter]

Don't post this stuff, all the members outside the USA will think we are nuts.

 

[jack palmer]

Jack,

Read Jamie's comment (#34). It really couldn't be more clear than that.
Imagine you're black, it's 1960 in the south.
Remember back then, it was OK in some places in the US to refuse service in a restaurant?

This case isn't about someone's religious beliefs. This is nothing but unabashed hatred and bigotry. And that should not go unpunished.

I did grow up in the South in the 50's and 60's and remember the water fountains and bathrooms for Whites and Blacks. I've always been opposed to discrimination. People with Christian beliefs don't seem to believe in homosexuality. I just don't agree that that belief automatically equates to hatred and bigotry. Even if this couple win their case , the courts can't change peoples beliefs. You can force people to do a lot of things but that doesn't mean that they're ever going to agree with them.