daveywaugh
Blah
I had an opportunity to shoot two M3's over the weekend; one borrowed DS and my SS.
The DS had a Summicron DR, my SS wore my Hex 50. I don't have the experience to make enlightened comments, nor was I interested in doing a 'shoot-out' review with pictures @ 100% ;-) I just thought some people might be interested in an anecdotal comparison by an M newbie.
My M3 has a serial above 1 000 000 so it's a SS obviously, with newer rewind and the other updated 'bits' that evolved over the years. I didn't try and find a late model - it just turned out that way when I saw one for sale with a reputable dealer. Of all the changes, the one that seemed to matter to me at the time was the SS v DS. After using both on the weekend, I am surprised how little difference it made - in fact, I really enjoyed the DS. It was certainly no less smooth ;-) and was fun and probably just as fast to advance.
When you read online about the differences in models, or evolutions of a product, I think we tend to make more of it than what it really is. My brief time spent with different Leica models makes me believe that ANY M with a decent CLA (by a good tech) is going to work wonderfully. I'd say the CLA means more than 'feature x or y'.
On the later M3 I do like the frameline (preview) selector and the ability to select beyond 200 ASA on the back ;-) but these things are pretty minor. A bit has been said about the newer rewind knob being tougher, but I am sure the originals are more than good enough. I guess there are many other differences too, but nothing was apparent while using them.
I love the 50 Hex very much - it's almost perfect for me. It's modern yet has a bit of character, seems well built, and is nice to use. I wish the goggles had come with the cron and if they had, I probably would have kept it ;-) Anecdotally, the cron is sharper... this kind of surprised me because I would have bet the modern lens with newer coatings would have trumped it. There's not a huge difference of course (and it could have been the result of other factors) but across the board the cron wins for sharpness and perhaps has a slighter greater tonality too (maybe the Hex has slightly more contrast?)
Bokeh is of course so incredibly subjective and means things to different people, but IMO the Hex is nicer. It's a little smoother and calmer. I think it renders better.
I think the ergonomics of the Hex is a little better - I actually love the inbuilt hood and everything seemed smoother. I am sure that with a CLA the Summicron would be awesome though so it's not a fair comment.
Anyway, a quick few thoughts. I'd love either body or lens... and wish I could have both. I used to laugh reading about people here with six 50mm lenses... but I think I can see why ;-)
The DS had a Summicron DR, my SS wore my Hex 50. I don't have the experience to make enlightened comments, nor was I interested in doing a 'shoot-out' review with pictures @ 100% ;-) I just thought some people might be interested in an anecdotal comparison by an M newbie.
My M3 has a serial above 1 000 000 so it's a SS obviously, with newer rewind and the other updated 'bits' that evolved over the years. I didn't try and find a late model - it just turned out that way when I saw one for sale with a reputable dealer. Of all the changes, the one that seemed to matter to me at the time was the SS v DS. After using both on the weekend, I am surprised how little difference it made - in fact, I really enjoyed the DS. It was certainly no less smooth ;-) and was fun and probably just as fast to advance.
When you read online about the differences in models, or evolutions of a product, I think we tend to make more of it than what it really is. My brief time spent with different Leica models makes me believe that ANY M with a decent CLA (by a good tech) is going to work wonderfully. I'd say the CLA means more than 'feature x or y'.
On the later M3 I do like the frameline (preview) selector and the ability to select beyond 200 ASA on the back ;-) but these things are pretty minor. A bit has been said about the newer rewind knob being tougher, but I am sure the originals are more than good enough. I guess there are many other differences too, but nothing was apparent while using them.
I love the 50 Hex very much - it's almost perfect for me. It's modern yet has a bit of character, seems well built, and is nice to use. I wish the goggles had come with the cron and if they had, I probably would have kept it ;-) Anecdotally, the cron is sharper... this kind of surprised me because I would have bet the modern lens with newer coatings would have trumped it. There's not a huge difference of course (and it could have been the result of other factors) but across the board the cron wins for sharpness and perhaps has a slighter greater tonality too (maybe the Hex has slightly more contrast?)
Bokeh is of course so incredibly subjective and means things to different people, but IMO the Hex is nicer. It's a little smoother and calmer. I think it renders better.
I think the ergonomics of the Hex is a little better - I actually love the inbuilt hood and everything seemed smoother. I am sure that with a CLA the Summicron would be awesome though so it's not a fair comment.
Anyway, a quick few thoughts. I'd love either body or lens... and wish I could have both. I used to laugh reading about people here with six 50mm lenses... but I think I can see why ;-)
sc_rufctr
Leica nuts
It's good to read a sensible comparison between the two cameras and yes you're right there's not a lot in it.
My two Ms are very different to each other. My M3 is a late model like yours, 1966 and my M4-P dates from 1983.
The biggest difference is the film loading. People praise the later speed loading of the M4-P but although my M3 takes longer to load film you're never in any doubt that you've done it properly.
The M4-P is good and yes it is quicker but I find myself double and triples checking the film is engaged properly in the sprockets.
Of course they feel a little different but the view finder of the M3 is wonderful were as the viewfinder in the M4-P is just good.
I have a 135mm f/2.8 Elmarit-M Lens that's the same vintage as my M4-P but that lens is easier to focus on an M3.
My two Ms are very different to each other. My M3 is a late model like yours, 1966 and my M4-P dates from 1983.
The biggest difference is the film loading. People praise the later speed loading of the M4-P but although my M3 takes longer to load film you're never in any doubt that you've done it properly.
The M4-P is good and yes it is quicker but I find myself double and triples checking the film is engaged properly in the sprockets.
Of course they feel a little different but the view finder of the M3 is wonderful were as the viewfinder in the M4-P is just good.
I have a 135mm f/2.8 Elmarit-M Lens that's the same vintage as my M4-P but that lens is easier to focus on an M3.
Last edited:
JianL
Established
I agree.
Different features aside, the most noticeable difference between models is whether they have been serviced or not.
I tried a 83XXXX DS today and was quite shocked at how smooth and quiet it was when compared to my late DS and a 96xxxx SS. Cosmetically, the 83XXXX was probably in the worst condition.
The SS felt rough in comparison and the long stroke of the advance lever made it a chore to use. The advance lever on the 83 was so smooth that I found myself using it for the sake of it!
Different features aside, the most noticeable difference between models is whether they have been serviced or not.
I tried a 83XXXX DS today and was quite shocked at how smooth and quiet it was when compared to my late DS and a 96xxxx SS. Cosmetically, the 83XXXX was probably in the worst condition.
The SS felt rough in comparison and the long stroke of the advance lever made it a chore to use. The advance lever on the 83 was so smooth that I found myself using it for the sake of it!
daveywaugh
Blah
I had to send the DS back today and I miss it already... yeah I am a sad case! The SS is going away to get a nice CLA though, and some new leatherette soon. A 100ft roll of Tri-X will be waiting for her. My 5 yo is sick of me taking photos of him, my wife hides, so I might need to extend myself a bit and pretend to be a real photographer ;-)
sc_rufctr
Leica nuts
I still find it hard to believe after all these years that these cameras are still so very usable.
I can't imagine not having an M3 in my camera bag.
I can't imagine not having an M3 in my camera bag.
daveywaugh
Blah
Yeah I am the same Peter. I have actually been 'trying' to love RFers for a long time, but the M3 is the first one that just works for me on all levels. It's undoubtedly the perfect camera for *me* and it just happens to be 50 years old! Funny when you think about it.
Yeah I know a camera is a tool... blah blah... but I guess I just like something that feels a bit special to me. With one camera and one lens, it just feels right. No offence intended, but the R3A I had just never clicked with me. Nothing to do with Leica snobbery at all - just lots of little things that make the M3 a much better shooter.
Yeah I know a camera is a tool... blah blah... but I guess I just like something that feels a bit special to me. With one camera and one lens, it just feels right. No offence intended, but the R3A I had just never clicked with me. Nothing to do with Leica snobbery at all - just lots of little things that make the M3 a much better shooter.
sc_rufctr
Leica nuts
And that's just it... Nothing is built like an M3.
The feel< The weight, The quality... It's all there.
The feel< The weight, The quality... It's all there.
errorlogin
Love vintage Hifi, too!
Agree with all. Much more important is a good CLA than the year of manufacture.
"Quality never goes out of style."
"Quality never goes out of style."