annoying wedding photographers!

[FrankS]

It is my impression that a greater number of 'weekenders' are infiltrating the wedding photographer business, many do not bring a suitable level of professionalism with them, eg. the observation that started this thread. I can't think of any other profession that tolerates such incursions into their ranks unchecked, on a professional level.

I am one of these "weekenders" Erl, and I know that I am professional in my approach and my results are not inferior. I feel that because I love photography and I am not burnt out by doing 70 weddings a year, year after year, I am less cynical and more polite than many full time professional wedding photographers. I do weddings because I enjoy them not because it is a job and pays my bills.

This clearly illustrates why general statements which paint with a broad brush are frequently inaccurate and rarely helpful.

 

[back alley]

i worked, part time, for a couple of studios in town, doing weddings on weekends.

i hated it.
and i was a hack.

there are some brilliant and creative wedding shooters out there though.

what did i hate?
carrying around tons of gear while wearing a suit on what felt like the hottest days of summer.
i hated when another photog found my 'secret' outdoor shooting site.
i hated the drunken best men and the brides that swore like sailors.
i hated the mosquitoes and batteries dying for no good reason.
i hated the in-laws that kept trying to get me drunk, for what possible reason?
and i could go on.

i kinda liked the money.

but i was ALWAYS professional, courteous and kept a smile glued on my face.

joe

 

[JoeFriday]

i hated the mosquitoes and batteries dying for no good reason.

I rather like the mosquitoes that die for no good reason 🙂

 

[doubs43]

Joe, I get the impression that you're capable of starting something and then sitting back to enjoy the whole thing! 😀

Really, though...... it's an interesting thread with lots of good input.

Walker

 

[JoeFriday]

me?? never!

actually, this is a rather interesting and cathartic thread.. it's good to see both sides of the story represented

 

[rbiemer]

Have sen good and bad wedding pros. The last wedding I went to was my cousins. The photographer was the sister of one of my friends. Mary(the photog) does this part-time but she is very professional. Two or three meetings with her clients and the Preacher/Rabbi/Justice of the Peace.
She's still shooting film-uses Canon gear(3 bodies: one BW, one Color, third being re-loaded), minimal flash. By nature she's a happy person and detail oriented. Two good qualities for this, I think.
At the rehersal for my cousin's wedding, Mary gladly adjusted where she would be shooting the vows, etc to accomodate grandma and grandpa's ability to see.
I was the only other person there (that I saw) with a camera and I wasn't trying to do anything other than get some good pictures of my family enjoying a party.
I got some good stuff at the reception of the younger kids trying to square dance(yes it was a country music band 🙄 but, hey, it wasn't my party.).
And one I liked pretty well of a group of my cousins kids and their buddies in tuxes, cowboy boots and baseball hats-- That one I'm saving til I need some leverage on the kids 😀
Cuz I almost always have a camera with me, one of my friends asked me to take pictures at his last wedding. YIKES! I tried to decline, but ultimately he and the bride said,"Look, thise is our third try each, we don't want anything more than the same stuff you'd take at a really good party. And one or two of us and all the assorted children."
The ceremony was VERY casual, the party was lots of fun, and the pressure was nothing like real wedding photogs deal with, I'm sure.
The wedding was in one of the local bars and the reception in another.
I talked to the Justice of the Peace beforehand and he was happy as long as I didn't use flash. 800 speed color film for the ceremony and mixed lighting :bang:
Right after, I managed to get the new family(all 12) in one spot outdoors and shot some group shots(100 speed and fill flash) that came out well.
NEVER again, though. I'm not good enough, for one thing, and WAY too much work.
Plus, I was sweating bullets until the prints came back. I used a borrowed camera that I know to work well and I know how to use but still...too many horrible things to go wrong that I had no control over.
I understand why the pros charge what they do. And they(most of 'em anyway) earn every penny.
Rob

 

[kiev4a]

A wedding photographer shoots those "cliche" "cheesy" photos because he/she has learned that is what sells. In most cases the photographer has to take charge of the whole progress of the wedding or the various shots that the bride and groom have requested just won't get done. People will wander off, and someone will not be in the photos. A wedding is an exercise in chaos.

I am a professional photographer of 35 years experience. I have chosen to be in industrial photography. I have not, and would never, ever shoot a wedding. I hate the thought, ugh. But I do understand the types of stress and other issues facing a typical wedding photographer.

A good summation of shooting weddings. So, the photographer used a big flash. That's because he has only one chance to get the shots and doesn't have the luxury of being artsy. Normally the bride's mom could care less about artsy. She wants sharp pictures that show all the principle members of the wedding party, pictures just like the ones a photographer shot at the wedding of her best friend's daughter. Pictures every one can look at then put away and probably not open the album again for 10 years. But if the photographer misses getting a photo of the bride's aunt's stepdaughter there will be hell to pay.

Demeanor is a whole different story. It's inexcusable for a photographer to show up looking like he's taken some time off from yard work to come to the wedding. But I have nothing but respect for the folks who shoot weddings. I've done it and getting the required photos is a lot like herding cats.

The folks who shoot weddings deserve our respect. Maybe you think it's not "photography" as you define it, but it's damned hard work just the same.

 

[Sean Reid]

what a jerk. if only there were more ascoughs and reids out there. 🙁

Thanks man! I just shot a wedding with my wife yesterday and we had a blast, tried not to bother anyone. She's getting better fast <G>

As for the rudeness of some wedding photographers...it's true for some and not for others. I ran into a videographer this past spring who was about as intrusive as you could imagine...but they're not all like that. I've been training my wife as a second shooter for weddings and here are some things we were discussing this past Saturday (that I keep in mind) FWIW.

1. During the ceremony, I stay towards the back, the sides, or (at most) no closer than half-way up the center aisle

2. I try to never block anyone's view of anything if I can help it. If I do block them momentarily, I always make a quick apology afterwards.

Shutter Noise: I don't like to use a loud shutter camera (like the 1Ds) during a ceremony (esp. indoors in a church). I just know I'd go straight to hell if I did <G>. I use the R-D1 or 10D. Some photographers don't seem to care about the shutter noise issue but I find loud shutter/motor noise to be really intrusive during a quiet church ceremony. The E-1 is great in this respect. I'm crossing my fingers that the Canon 5D will have a quiet shutter like the 10D.

Flash: I never use it during the ceremony itself. If needed, I'll use it for the processional and/or recessional and, naturally, at the reception for dancing after dark.

In the next couple weeks I should have a second R-D1 body so my primary wedding cameras will be one Epson with a Nokton 50/1.5 and another with an Ultron 28/1.9 At the wedding we just did, there were various guests with some quite large DSLR/zoom/flash/bracket combos and one innkeeper's comment to me was: "wow, your camera is so little"....yup, and I'm happy to keep it that way.

Cheers,

Sean

 

[dostacos]

well my only experience behind the wedding camera, was for a couple at my church that could not afford a "real" photographer. I was the church photographer at the time [documenting men's retreats, becah baptisms etc.]

The church wedding planner asked me to shoot all the standards then I shot the reception. My gift was the album and a 8X10 of the couple.

On the other side of the camera, the phto putz promised X number of shots, then bailed before he shot that number. the good news is I am not married to her anymore so it does not matter...

The next time we got what we wanted so I am 1 for 2 and batting 500 ain't bad.

I will only do weddings if the family cannot afford it and I know the couple

 

[Erl]

It is my impression that a greater number of 'weekenders' are infiltrating the wedding photographer business, many do not bring a suitable level of professionalism with them, eg. the observation that started this thread. I can't think of any other profession that tolerates such incursions into their ranks unchecked, on a professional level.

I am one of these "weekenders" Erl, and I know that I am professional in my approach and my results are not inferior. I feel that because I love photography and I am not burnt out by doing 70 weddings a year, year after year, I am less cynical and more polite than many full time professional wedding photographers. I do weddings because I enjoy them not because it is a job and pays my bills.

This clearly illustrates why general statements which paint with a broad brush are frequently inaccurate and rarely helpful.

Frank,

I think I may have twanged a raw nerve there. My apologies to you. I was 'trying' to indicate that a division between Pro and Amateur seems to be blurred in photography.

Re the "70 weddings a year" bit. I totally agree. When I was young, I got close to maybe 35 a year, doing ALL processing, mounting, etc myself. Each wedding represented a full weeks work, where only a few hours on a Saturday (mainly) were 'behind the camera'. This meant varied activities that prevented burnout in any given week.

These days, I may do half a dozen weddings a year, just to keep my reflexes and thinking tuned.

Frank, I never intended to impune your skill or dedication to photography. I was trying to illustrate the erosion of standards, that does exist, which is commonly exhibited by many amateurs shooting weddings, but reflects on professionals because the public often does not percieve the difference.

OTOH, I know some amateurs do a better job than some Pro's. You may well be one of them, which I accept.

I acknowledge definite exceptions, even reversals, to my generalisation, and clearly (I hope) accept you to be one of them. I think we actually agree on most points when analyzed, except that I may disagree with your criticism of 'generalizations'. I feel they can be useful, provided it is understood that they are just that - generalisations, not definitions.

 

[FrankS]

No worries mate! It is kind of funny how the 2 of us have "found" each other once you landed here. I'll lighten up. I have a hard time accepting generalizations though, especially when they include me. They MAY be useful in some instances, but they are still frequently inaccurate and rarely helpful.

 

[Erl]

Frank,

I reckon we could 'bounce off' each other pretty well!

I reckon my reaction, had the situation been reversed, would have been at least as feisty as yours.

The hidden emotion for me was at a wedding last weekend, as a guest at my neice's wedding. I (sort of) refused the official photog. job so I could relax. The couple employed an amateur photog. (friend) who stuffed up hugely. I was very embarrased as many people wanted to know why I was not 'moving in' to take over.

I did shoot, discreetly of course, but it is not the same thing. All I could think of was "bloody amateur" which is unkind. I have seen some (even more than some!) Pro's do worse than her.

So, now we are relaxed. Great.

 

[FrankS]

Yeah, no problem.

I had an extremely enjoyable time at a friend's wedding at the beginning of the summer where I went as a guest, not the photographer. I took along my Leica M2 and 50mm Summicron, and 5 rolls of HP5+. I met the official photog there using a digital SLR. He worked really hard coralling and arranging very large family groups. He needed to be loud in order to get the large group to comply. I was thinking to myself how glad I was that it wasn't me! I was able to take lots of shots (5x36) without worrying about moving people around and setting up the formals. I'm still working on printing up 30 or so B+W 8x10s. She is really going to enjoy her wedding gift!

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

I'm in the same boat here, Frank. Friends of ours got married in July. I'm still working on their pictures (that's my wedding present to them); they did have a photographer, who is an in-law of theirs, some photojournalist. He wasn't loud or anything like that, but one thing where my philosophy really departs from most other photographers I've personally met is that I don't like using flash. Not unless I really really have to. I don't like fill-flash either. Well, that flash went off for about six or eight hours. Mine, I think I used it for three or four pictures. I also like to work "behind the scenes". I have nothing against posed pictures (and of course, for weddings, there are certain ones that the family wants that you must have posed ones), but I think the more natural the better.

Anyway, going back to the "delivery" of some photographer's demeanor...I still can't get over the fact that the next day he just dropped off the film for them to develop. Just like that. I cannot possibly think that any self-loving photographer would ever do that with their work. I'm just simply shocked. Then again, it may be just me, I don't know if anybody out there just shoots film and never bothers to look at it before delivering their stuff.

I'm still in the process of working on the B&W ones. I hope they enjoy their pictures once I finish printing all of them!!

 

[Erl]

" I'm still working on printing up 30 or so B+W 8x10s. She is really going to enjoy her wedding gift! " said Frank.

Not nearly as much as you are enjoying the printing, I bet!

 

[canonetc]

That type of behavior, from my experience, happens when a wedding shooter gets trapped in the business. With no way out, his/her photography has become stale and formulated, and they are bored or tired of the whole thing. Some shooters get into wedding photography because it looks like easy money. When that fantasy wears off, sometimes it's too late to get out. Especially if you have a mortgage, family, or few other employment options that will supply the same level of profit in the same amount of time.

Try shooting a wedding. Then twenty more. Some clients make life hell. Others are heavenly. As said before, they are tough to do.

No excuse for poor behavior and appearance, but understanding what can happen to wedding photgraphers (or any photgrapher) when it becomes just a job is important.

Cheers,

Chris