Another battle in the war on film

[Spleenrippa]

I bought my Tri-X 36 for $5.00. PLEASE show me where I can get it for less than $2.50 per box, I'm going to have a buying spree!

Freestylephoto's Arista Premium 400 is Tri-x. $2.19 for 36 exposures.
Click here!

Freestyle is definitely a store worth buying from, no matter where you live. They are one of the last bastions for the analog photographer 🙄

 

[Spyro]

Αctually I think that freestylephoto is a new kind of bastion that didnt exist before. Personally I dont see anything wrong with shopping online, local shops can focus on services and things that you wouldnt buy without trying first, like... ahm... ehm...
shoes 😀

 

[Keith]

I see a lot of similarities with film and analog photographic supplies to the supply situation my son complains about constantly with his hobby ... which is those complex and very fast remote controlled cars that use either nitro fuelled engines or sophisticated electric motors. He bitches repeatedly to me about the prices the local hobby shops charge and how slack they are at stocking certain items but buys everything on line from various sellers in the US or Japan anyway because they are cheaper and they always have the parts he wants. He won't support the local businesses at all and takes great delight in telling me how useless they are and gloating over the money he saves buying from huge overseas hobby retailers.

This isn't the case with the OP I realise but I think we have somewhat of a similar catch 22 situation going on here with our hobby ... I'm certainly not prepared to walk into my local Kodak shop and pay $12.00 per roll for the only black and white film they stock which is BW400CN. I don't see the situation improving a lot either and while film may be having somewhat of a resurgence I don't see this as an indicator of a healthy or robust future for analog photography.

 

[pharyngula]

I had the sad experience of watching my favorite local camera store die a rapid death and disappear a few short years ago thanks to internet sales and the big box electronic stores that opened up in my modest-sized city. They had been declining for a while with the ascendance of digital even though they carried and/or could get pretty much whatever digital stuff their customers wanted. They even pegged their prices to B&H, which was far better than the big box stores that finally drove a stake in their heart. Same thing happened to our local book stores after B&N moved in. I understand the realities and simple economics but lament the fact that the local guys also dispensed good advice on everything from equipment to shooting tips and yes, even digital processing. I assume it was the catastrophic collapse in the film processing (snapshot) side of the business that drove most of these local brick and mortar shops into unsustainable territory - not a decline in equipment sales per se.

In any event, I started shooting film again a few months ago and remembered another local shop in my area that catered largely to pros in days past. I found out they were still in business and I was delighted to learn when I walked in that they'd actually grown and had a thriving business in film, paper and chemistry! The owner told me that interest in film and silver prints was very strong and stable - maybe even growing. All I know is that he had pretty much everything I wanted film-wise and I've been happily working through an assortment of B&W and color emulsions just to try em out before settling on a few.

My hunch is that being in a college town probably provides access to a key demographic. Both the fine arts folks and students are still interested in the darkroom. Honestly, I am most heartened by the fact that so many young people seem to be shooting film. I had thought any film sales were solely dependent on the few holdouts who never gave it up or the old codgers like myself who realized that their foray into digital had left a hole that they wanted to go back and fill with film. I don't want to assume naively that film is "coming back" gangbusters but at least I'm not pessimistic that it has to fall off the face of the earth either.

 

[cosmonaut]

The local lab here is the same. They dealt film for as long as I can remember and I am 51. They now almost hate film. I bought several expired rolls of Tmax 100 and 400 for a dollar a roll. Everytime I go in for something they remind me film is almost dead.

 

[Spyro]

My experience is different and I'm quite happy for my local camera shops to die a slow and painful death because they are useless extortionists fleecing noobs & tourists, then hiring them for slave labour instead of paying a proper salary to an experienced salesperson. FWIW I've had the same experience with my local bookstore, local music store etc. Just unlucky I guess.

And if a big online shop means film becomes more affordable and popular for people and eventually puts a stop on Kodak's declining sales, I dont see anything wrong with that.

 

[anitasanger]

Nice conversation guys. I really appreciate all of the online needs, but I'm going to try and support the mom and pop shop for as long as they continue having what I need! I did go to Feestylephoto and request a free catalouge though. Thanks for the tip.

Anyway, I'm glad to have found a community here full of people who still appreciate the delicate nature and stunning results derived from film. I truly think it's about to experience some type of resurgence. In a lot of ways, people who grew up in a digital age are trying to discover photography in it's organic, natural state.

I'm a product of the digital age, but not totally. I was born in 1980, so I got to watch the transition. Give me film ANY day of the week.

 

[healyzh]

IMHO, here in Portland it seems that photography stores have sort of chosen one side or the other, and not in a bad way at all. I can go to several different places here if I want film or chemistry, at least two different places if I want to look at older mechanical cameras while dropping off my film, and If I want to see the latest whizz-bang digital camera I can do that at a store that specializes in whizz-bang digital cameras. All within 20 minuets of my house.

How much of this is the whole, "Keep Portland Wierd" thing? Not that I'm complaining. It's reached the point where I walk into the Lab I use in Portland and they either fill out a new envelop from memory, or they start ringing up what I brought in the last time. It is nice to find service like that in this day and age!

I normally buy my film, chemistry and my gear from these local shops, though there are exceptions, like the 4x5 lens I bought today. The one local business that has lost some of my business is the lab, as they lost my B&W work, since I've started doing all that myself, but they've gained my 35mm colour, as I'm no longer happy with the results from Costco (they've really gone down hill). So in the long run, they've probably come out ahead. They get more lab business from me, and I buy more film and chemicals from them.

 

[wgerrard]

There are two independent photo shops around here (metro population of two million or so). One is entirely digital. The other emphasizes digital, but maintains a current stock of chemicals and darkroom supplies. Can't buy an enlarger but you can buy just about everything else.

I think I have convinced myself that the last surviving advantage of film is in b&w printing. Since I don't do that, it's only inertia that keeps me using film.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

I'm a product of the digital age, but not totally. I was born in 1980, so I got to watch the transition. Give me film ANY day of the week.

I scanned my first negatives into a computer in 1979, and used a Digital Imager in 1981. Image Processing, image smoothing and digital filters- 1979. So- 1980, at least I think of it as the Digital Age.

Freestyle- bought from them in the late 80s. They've been around for a while.

 

[anthony_semone]

yep, took a roll of Ilford into my local camera shop to be greeted by the store owner saying "we don't process film any more." Having seen the week before when I went in to pick up a roll of B&W that they had posted a sign saying "No more color processing," I said well, "I've got B&W that'll require C-41." She said, "we can't afford to keep the equipment any longer because there is so little demand, so we no longer do B&W either." I asked for a referral, and she told me "Walgreens," and, lo and behold, Walgreens it is. Crap job, but hey, some days you have times like that.

tony

 

[kevin m]

I see a lot of similarities with film and analog photographic supplies to the supply situation my son complains about constantly with his hobby ... which is those complex and very fast remote controlled cars that use either nitro fuelled engines or sophisticated electric motors. He bitches repeatedly to me about the prices the local hobby shops charge and how slack they are at stocking certain items but buys everything on line from various sellers in the US or Japan anyway because they are cheaper and they always have the parts he wants. He won't support the local businesses at all and takes great delight in telling me how useless they are and gloating over the money he saves buying from huge overseas hobby retailers.

The situation is similar where I live. Any 'specialty' need is served by shopping online. There seem to be increasingly limited choices for local shopping unless you live in a major metropolitan area.

 

[Frontman]

Luckily film is still doing well in Tokyo. It's true that all of the small Fujifilm stores located in the city have switched from film to digital printing, but the larger stores still carry a lot of stuff.

I can still choose between Ilford, Kodak, or Fuji chemistry, or they carry the raw ingredients if I am hardcore enough to make my own. The large number of old film cameras still in circulation in Japan, and the popularity of photography in general will probably insure that film sticks around for some time.

 

[damien.murphy]

It's funny, up to about 12 months ago, I would have noted how your experience was only too common in camera shops here in Dublin, but the recession and subsequent downturn in business among camera shops seems to be making many camera shops honest again.

Whereas before, photographers still shooting film here, would have counted themselves lucky to have one dedicated camera shop selling all the film, chemicals and darkroom supplies their hearts desired, now the main previously digital strongholds, are now offering proper film processing services once again, along with limited film, chemicals and darkroom supplies.

For real choice though, the internet I suspect is the way forward for readily available wet printing and developing materials. I am happy to split my custom among my local store, and use internet sources for unavailable items, given my current situation situation, and supporting good honest-to-god local businesses is always my first priority. Unfortunately however, of all the camera shops here in Dublin, I regret to report that there are not too many stores worthy of support, and aside from two other main stores that would be good pro shops, I often cringe when I hear the snake-oil salespeople at work in most other camera stores.

I always like to see good people well plugged, so if anyone is in Dublin looking for analogue supplies, the family-run Gunnes on Wexford St is a real bastion, and the conversation is both plentiful and free 🙂

On a related note, with the ubiquitous nature of dslrs and competitive nature of the market, there does not seem a lot of margin in dslr sales for camera shops, with margins in the region of 5%, if what I have heard is to be believed. You can't beat solid, dependable, repeatable custom, and from what I see here, many camera shops forgot that and are in the process of re-learning that lesson.

Thankfully 🙂

 

[Keith]

The large Brisbane suburb I'm a few kilometers drive from has a Kodak one hour in the shopping centre ... I know the guy who owns it fairly well and it was there I used to get all my C41 processing done before I graduated to home developing. He has a background in film cameras and used to work as a sales rep for Olympus back in the seventies so we chat about the future of film quite frequently. A couple of years ago he was all doom and gloom about the future of his C41 gear and predicted that he'd probably put it out to pasture within a year or so but I noted recently that he hasn't done so and asked why ... had there been a resurgence? When he made that prediction his daily processing volume was still dropping but apparently it's now stabled out at around six or seven rolls per day and he feels that although that's pretty pathetic compared to the halceon days before the digital axe fell, it's enough to justify the exercise.

I see his situation as being generally representative of the state of analog photography supply and demand. Where it is, is where it can stay indefiniyely IMO but if there is any significant further decline we can kiss it goodbye!

 

[damien.murphy]

I'm certainly not prepared to walk into my local Kodak shop and pay $12.00 per roll for the only black and white film they stock which is BW400CN.

Indeed, a chicken and egg situation. Still though, we're not (all 🙂 ) living in communist states, so it is fair to expect the business to meet you halfway. I think anyone of an old enough age to see the effect of what buying solely from discounter suppliers does to local business, is usually prepared to pay a little of a premium to buy locally. Many businesses price themselves out of the market sadly, as reflected by your $12 per roll film example.

I'm 31, and sadly have seen large retailers and discounters signal the death knell for local businesses such as butchers/ fishmongers/ produce sellers, etc, and it brings home to you the ultimate cost of saving a few cents. What people often forget, is that the ultimate evolution of a capitalist market is towards a monopoly situation, where all needs are catered to by one giant, consolidated company.

 

[patois]

I think it varies by the passion of the store owner. Yes, trends matter but there is nothing like someone who is passionate about what they do. Some people accept that marginalization of analog stuff and give in, others understand the passion of a niche market.

 

[Keith]

Luckily film is still doing well in Tokyo. It's true that all of the small Fujifilm stores located in the city have switched from film to digital printing, but the larger stores still carry a lot of stuff.

I can still choose between Ilford, Kodak, or Fuji chemistry, or they carry the raw ingredients if I am hardcore enough to make my own. The large number of old film cameras still in circulation in Japan, and the popularity of photography in general will probably insure that film sticks around for some time.

I think we're damned lucky that the Japanese often seem to be quite obsessed with all things retro. I noticed it years ago when I worked in the motorcycle industry ... old Kawasaki Z1Rs (and other bikes) which were lucky to fetch a couple of thousand dollars used on the Oz market were being sent back to their homeland courtesy of the huge sums being paid by individuals who didn't want the latest flavour hi tech pocket rocket!

The instant old DSLRs become the latest photographic retro flavour in the land of the rising sun we're in trouble! 😛

 

[stevebmd]

Was at smithsonian air and space museum last week with my kids. I stopped into the gift shop which was resplendent in it's supply of memory cards and batteries. I had my m3 with me and only needed film. I was told by the store manager that " they stopped making film sir. It's been discontinued". Go figure

 

[Colin Corneau]

I love stories like this. I hope your film from NYC turned out great, by the way.

I'm very lucky to have a good store dedicated to film and darkroom supplies near to my city. It seems to come and go but they're hanging on so far (darkroomcentral.ca, FWIW) and I'm grateful for it.

Vital to support a bricks and mortar store whenever you can...deals are nice but mail order isn't everything.