RayPA
Ignore It (It'll go away)
Joe Brugger said:
LOL!! Good point. I remember the pre-digital days when no serious photographer would set foot in one of these places, myself included. Now, I just need their C41 chemistry to process my film. However, that's it. I still won't let them print or scan my negs.
.
Kim Coxon
Moderator
I must admit, I do get somewhat bemused/amused by some of the comments in threads such as these. I will sometimes use a minilab if I have shot some pics to test the collimation of a lens having adjusted it or to get some family "snaps" taken on a P&S done for cost/convenience reasons. Other than that all my films go to a "Pro" lab.
If I take some pics using say the 28 Ultron and the 28 Elmarit on the same roll, I have to look very closely to find any appreciable difference in 7x5 prints. (On larger sizes, it is perhaps more noticeable) On the other hand, if I use the same camera/film/lens combination, the difference is quite stark between cheap mail order/minilab results and those from the pro lab. In a similar vein, the results from different film stock is usually more noticeable than lens differences.
It may just be me, but I can't see the logic in paying many 1000's of $ for the best camera/lens combination and then pay for second class processing.
Kim
If I take some pics using say the 28 Ultron and the 28 Elmarit on the same roll, I have to look very closely to find any appreciable difference in 7x5 prints. (On larger sizes, it is perhaps more noticeable) On the other hand, if I use the same camera/film/lens combination, the difference is quite stark between cheap mail order/minilab results and those from the pro lab. In a similar vein, the results from different film stock is usually more noticeable than lens differences.
It may just be me, but I can't see the logic in paying many 1000's of $ for the best camera/lens combination and then pay for second class processing.
Kim
RayPA said:LOL!! Good point. I remember the pre-digital days when no serious photographer would set foot in one of these places, myself included. Now, I just need their C41 chemistry to process my film. However, that's it. I still won't let them print or scan my negs.
S
Socke
Guest
Kim, what is a "Pro" lab? Is it a lab at a photographers studio or in a photo store?
Or is it one of the last big developers/printers left in Europe, i.E. Eurocolor or CeWe Color.
The two photographers with studios in my quarter are 100% digital by now and the minilab in the train station belongs to a smaller photo chain which is transitioning to digital as fast as it can. But they can and do develop film in their Agfa minilab.
We have a big photo studio, Studio Seekamp, which just scraped their lab. They wanted to give their E6 mashine away for free but there were no takers.
So I have the choice between a minilab where I'm a known customer vs. a big lab with a film torture machine capable of spoiling 1000s of films an hour
Or is it one of the last big developers/printers left in Europe, i.E. Eurocolor or CeWe Color.
The two photographers with studios in my quarter are 100% digital by now and the minilab in the train station belongs to a smaller photo chain which is transitioning to digital as fast as it can. But they can and do develop film in their Agfa minilab.
We have a big photo studio, Studio Seekamp, which just scraped their lab. They wanted to give their E6 mashine away for free but there were no takers.
So I have the choice between a minilab where I'm a known customer vs. a big lab with a film torture machine capable of spoiling 1000s of films an hour
ClaremontPhoto
Jon Claremont
I use minilabs all the time, but the market here is that all minilabs are operated by working photographers, not minimum wage people.
Kim Coxon
Moderator
I used to use a place called Colab and now use somewhere called Lab35. They both provide a range of services from hand prints down to machine runs. The quality is consistant and I get the feeling that they know and care about what they are doing. I would dare to say that all minilabs are bad but having seen the turnover of staff in some of them, I do wonder about their training especially when you see the results. Many I see in the UK just feed the film in one end and let the automatics do the job without inspection etc.
In the end, I think the old adage is still true that you pays your money and takes your choice. Perhaps I should have used Budget and quality rather than Pro. However, I am still amazed that some people will quibble over paying an extra 50c for a roll of film or an extra $ for quality processing but don't turn a hair at spending $$$$$$$ on a body or lenses.
Kim
In the end, I think the old adage is still true that you pays your money and takes your choice. Perhaps I should have used Budget and quality rather than Pro. However, I am still amazed that some people will quibble over paying an extra 50c for a roll of film or an extra $ for quality processing but don't turn a hair at spending $$$$$$$ on a body or lenses.
Kim
ClaremontPhoto
Jon Claremont
Socke said:
Socke:
I am sitting here in disbelief.
Why didn't you take the machine from them for yourself and friends?
S
Socke
Guest
ClaremontPhoto said:
It runs on 380 volts rotating current, takes chemicals from 20 litre canisters and costs around 50 Euros a day without any processing done and my flat is barely big enough for the machine and me
ClaremontPhoto
Jon Claremont
So?
One day I want a C41 minilab.
One day I want a C41 minilab.
Ducky
Well-known
Kim Coxon said:
Kim, some of us don't or can't spend $1000s on gear and just like to use film over digital. I'm a mini budgeted gearhead and use mini labs, don't knock us, we are probably the majority here.
Kim Coxon
Moderator
Hi,
I wasn't trying to knock anyone. :angel: There are many here who struggle to take photos and would dearly love to have something different from an FSU setup. I don't know what the pricing structure is like in the US. Over here, the price of a good mail order lab is no more than a 1 hour minilab. Many shops offer a 24, 48 and 7 day service at a freaction of the cost of the 1 hour or 1/2 hour service. Much of the film I use id short dated and from mail order to keep the cost down.
However, it is also true to say that there are very many threads here discussing the minute differences between different versions of the same lens. Dare I mention the "Bokeh King". In comparison, there are far fewer discussions on the merits of different film and yet I have found that this can have a far more profound impact on the final result. I have also found that the quality of the processing plays a very important role and yet seldom gets a mention apart from DIY monochrome. As some have mentioned, there are good minilabs around that care about what they do and if you know them, then they are probably the best place to go. There are probably also many who provide a "satisfactory" service in the larger shops etc. IMHO, it is a question of balance of the whole process and I think that that sometimes gets distorted here.
Kim
I wasn't trying to knock anyone. :angel: There are many here who struggle to take photos and would dearly love to have something different from an FSU setup. I don't know what the pricing structure is like in the US. Over here, the price of a good mail order lab is no more than a 1 hour minilab. Many shops offer a 24, 48 and 7 day service at a freaction of the cost of the 1 hour or 1/2 hour service. Much of the film I use id short dated and from mail order to keep the cost down.
However, it is also true to say that there are very many threads here discussing the minute differences between different versions of the same lens. Dare I mention the "Bokeh King".
In comparison, there are far fewer discussions on the merits of different film and yet I have found that this can have a far more profound impact on the final result. I have also found that the quality of the processing plays a very important role and yet seldom gets a mention apart from DIY monochrome. As some have mentioned, there are good minilabs around that care about what they do and if you know them, then they are probably the best place to go. There are probably also many who provide a "satisfactory" service in the larger shops etc. IMHO, it is a question of balance of the whole process and I think that that sometimes gets distorted here.Kim
Ducky said:
Solinar
Analog Preferred
Personally, I avoid in store mini-labs for my C41 processing. Too often they're out in the open and dust becomes a problem.
My local Wolf's, a.k.a. Ritz at least has a clean room that is behind glass. Unfortunately, they no longer process 120 film.
Across the street is Precision Camera, our locally owned full service photographic store, but there I've gotten scratches that last the entire roll, usually on 120 film, which no one can explain.
I now send off my 120 C41 film to be developed by a professional printer in South Austin. Also, I usually have my negs returned uncut, which gives me a chance to view them on a light table.
Consequently, most of my film use is B/W. So, I can develop the negs myself. I do have a Jobo C41 processing set up in storage - but have yet to set it up.
My local Wolf's, a.k.a. Ritz at least has a clean room that is behind glass. Unfortunately, they no longer process 120 film.
Across the street is Precision Camera, our locally owned full service photographic store, but there I've gotten scratches that last the entire roll, usually on 120 film, which no one can explain.
I now send off my 120 C41 film to be developed by a professional printer in South Austin. Also, I usually have my negs returned uncut, which gives me a chance to view them on a light table.
Consequently, most of my film use is B/W. So, I can develop the negs myself. I do have a Jobo C41 processing set up in storage - but have yet to set it up.
RayPA
Ignore It (It'll go away)
Kim Coxon said:Hi,
I wasn't trying to knock anyone. :angel: There are many here who struggle to take photos and would dearly love to have something different from an FSU setup. I don't know what the pricing structure is like in the US. Over here, the price of a good mail order lab is no more than a 1 hour minilab. Many shops offer a 24, 48 and 7 day service at a freaction of the cost of the 1 hour or 1/2 hour service. Much of the film I use id short dated and from mail order to keep the cost down.
However, it is also true to say that there are very many threads here discussing the minute differences between different versions of the same lens. Dare I mention the "Bokeh King".
Kim
I agree somewhat. The type of film makes a difference in image quality, but the majority of commercial films are probably good enough to discern differences between lenses (?), especially when the comparison is on the same roll or film type. Regarding processing, I think the real inconsistencies occur on the print end of the equation. That's where I've seen some pretty wild swings in results. The C41 processing at the mini-lab I use, which is run by a small regular group of drugstore employees, whom I wouldn't categorize as "knowledgeable" or particularly 'caring,' has been very consistent. I find I can verify that (consistency) with my scanning profiles. Of course the C41 processing machine requires so little operator input that it is almost foolproof.
We need PhotoBob to chime in here, since he runs a one-hour lab.
.
minoltist7
pussy photographer
Here , in Ukraine most minilabs suck. Even these which called "pro labs".
Becouse they "speed up" process and "optimize" usage of developers by various methods - for example they can use more "thick" solutions for economy, and high temperatures to develop 1000 rolls in a hour. Minilab processes are optimized for speed of processing of bunch of films. Results are grain from iso 100 film, like it was iso 400 . Who cares? Professional photogs don't use minilabs, and regular customers porder only small prints and do not see the grain. Nobody will improve process for 1-2 film enthusiasts in the city, who do not make lab profitable. The same cause of extinction of E6 here.... pros switched to digital, mass-market users don't know what is E6
Film is dead! - atl least in small east european country forgotten by God
Becouse they "speed up" process and "optimize" usage of developers by various methods - for example they can use more "thick" solutions for economy, and high temperatures to develop 1000 rolls in a hour. Minilab processes are optimized for speed of processing of bunch of films. Results are grain from iso 100 film, like it was iso 400 . Who cares? Professional photogs don't use minilabs, and regular customers porder only small prints and do not see the grain. Nobody will improve process for 1-2 film enthusiasts in the city, who do not make lab profitable. The same cause of extinction of E6 here.... pros switched to digital, mass-market users don't know what is E6
Film is dead! - atl least in small east european country forgotten by God
novum
Well-known
Precision Camera is bad news; I won't elaborate, but I have had multiple unfortunate dealings with them. Austin Photo Imaging creased some of my Velvia lengthwise last time I used them a few months ago. I'm not going to need the services of either of those establishments in the future. Holland Photo is it, I guess, 'round these parts . . . Holland gets some bad press from some local photogs, but they've done right by me.Solinar said: