Another "No Cameras Allowed" venue ...

dexdog said:
Boy, its just getter better and better. Between the price, 15 minute time limit and other restrictions, I would never visit the thing.
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100% agreed!

And the camera restriction is not the main reason for me not to go there:
too expensive for too little time.

In the States I sometime feel like cattle which is guided through some gates. The only thing I am allowed to do is to pay money...

Sorry, just my 2c.
 
I never thought I would live to see the day Indians marched white people off a cliff, even if it is just for 15 minutes. Andy Warhol could not have predicted this development, and no photographs? The truth is I found the whole idea lame from the start, Indians going corporate is bad juju. Selling out the Grand Canyon is just wrong for anyone to do much less Native Americans. Maybe I will just rip off one of their add pictures, add "Sucks" then make a screen print t-shirt and be done with it.
 
dmr said:
The Grand Canyon Skywalk, that huge U-shaped clear glass platform, which just opened, has a "No Cameras" policy, including cell phones.

Their excuse is that cameras and cell phones might be dropped and might scratch the surface of the platform.
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What an incredibly lame excuse. I'd start to believe it if they'd prohibit people to go in without taking their shoes off first. And jewelry. They might fall and scratch the surface.

Perhaps if they were honest about it: "we don't want you to take photos because our board of whatever-it-is are cheapskates and don't want to compete with somebody who may take a very good photo for free vs. somebody we had to pay thousands of dollars to do it"; perhaps then I wouldn't shake my head in disbelief.

Besides, that thing doesn't look solid enough. Have you seen those houses in Southern California by the edge of ticking mudslide slopes? Scary thought. I hope the $75 includes a parachute.
 
Kent said:
100% agreed!

And the camera restriction is not the main reason for me not to go there:
too expensive for too little time.

In the States I sometime feel like cattle which is guided through some gates. The only thing I am allowed to do is to pay money...

Sorry, just my 2c.
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Maybe you are just not going to the right places. Many national parks are excellent places to spend a lot of time, especially hiking, backpacking and camping. Arches and Bryce Canyon are two of my favorites, along with Glacier National Monument.

Entrance fees are pretty cheap, and you can go places where you will never see another soul, let alone be asked to pay for anything
 
Bryan Lee said:
I never thought I would live to see the day Indians marched white people off a cliff, even if it is just for 15 minutes. Andy Warhol could not have predicted this development, and no photographs? The truth is I found the whole idea lame from the start, Indians going corporate is bad juju. Selling out the Grand Canyon is just wrong for anyone to do much less Native Americans. Maybe I will just rip off one of their add pictures, add "Sucks" then make a screen print t-shirt and be done with it.
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Couldn't have said it better myself :D

I have enjoyed this thread but I'm done. I'm afraid it's going in the direction of politics or heaven forbid race referring to the owners of the skywalk as Indians and not Native Americans and "marching White People off a cliff". Somebody is bound to get offended and thread will get closed because we wouldn't want to hurt anyone's fellings for telling it like it is.

Bryan great insight from an expat........
 
Bryan Lee said:
I never thought I would live to see the day Indians marched white people off a cliff, even if it is just for 15 minutes. Andy Warhol could not have predicted this development, and no photographs? The truth is I found the whole idea lame from the start, Indians going corporate is bad juju. Selling out the Grand Canyon is just wrong for anyone to do much less Native Americans. Maybe I will just rip off one of their add pictures, add "Sucks" then make a screen print t-shirt and be done with it.
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Sad that you missed the main point of the having this built. The Indians are badly taken care of by the us government. Any cash pool such as this is a good thing for the local economy. Now the debate of whether it's ethical to sell out the grand canyon - shouldn't we leave that debate for the "natives" to discuss amongst themselves?

Whisper said:
Gee, I wonder where they learned their business practices from? ;)
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Don't feel sorry for them, even if they tick off a large number of the "RF users" in this forum. They won't be begging for visitors.


And to all you who think you are capable of capturing awsome images from the skywalk.. this is probably the best image you can shoot there, and it's already too late for that. WOW just look at this guy, no safety cables or anything!

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sherm said:
The best comment that I read so far is that no photo of any kind can do justice to this natural wonder!

Best,

Sherm
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Absolutely. The best two weeks of my life was spent in the Grand Canyon, rafting down the Colorado River and sleeping under the stars at night. To follow the run of John Wesley Powell down the river was truly a spiritual experience of the highest order. The Grand Canyon is slowly but surely being ruined.
 
The truth of the truth of the truth, is that beyond the strictly paparazzi situations, and by this I mean violating the intimate privacy of a human being, all other situations in which taking pics is forbidden are due to ill intentions of either profit or violations of human rights.

Being those the rules of the game, I take for myself the fullest freedom of choice and the responsability of the consequences if it turns bad. And finito la comedia.

Cheers,
Ruben
 
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peter_n said:
Absolutely. The best two weeks of my life was spent in the Grand Canyon, rafting down the Colorado River and sleeping under the stars at night. To follow the run of John Wesley Powell down the river was truly a spiritual experience of the highest order. The Grand Canyon is slowly but surely being ruined.
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Aren't you taking a bit of an elitist attitude? What is considered "ruined" to you might be called "more accessible" to others. Not everyone is able to raft down the colorado river and camp outdoors. This skywalk could be a gift to many people.
 
ywenz said:
Don't feel sorry for them, even if they tick off a large number of the "RF users" in this forum. They won't be begging for visitors.
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I don't know about that. On the LV travel boards there doesn't seem to be anybody ooo-ing and ahh-ing over this thing, just reciting the various reasons why they won't be going, everything from cost to travel time to ease of access to time limit to -- yeah, no cameras.

WOW just look at this guy, no safety cables or anything!
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I really don't know about the Hualapai (sp?) but the Mohawks are well known for their uncanny sense of balance and their ability to work high construction jobs.
 
ywenz said:
Aren't you taking a bit of an elitist attitude? What is considered "ruined" to you might be called "more accessible" to others. Not everyone is able to raft down the colorado river and camp outdoors. This skywalk could be a gift to many people.
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No. The Canyon is being environmentally ruined on a long term basis. I have the greatest respect for the Native Americans in the area, the Ute, Pueblo and in particular the Navajo who are a beautiful and spiritual people. They have every right, as someone stated above, to try to generate revenue from the Canyon. No-one, either from the Federal government or the state governments is even remotely interested in helping them. But they are getting very bad advice from the "businessmen" they seek counsel from. There are ways of making money that are not so harmful to the environment. Don't get me started on the Glen Canyon Dam at Page either... :mad:
 
Whisper said:
Having worked in and around several reservations. I can fully understand their trying to use what is available to them to survive. They've been left with little choice.
And this no camera rule/law is not new. Many reservations do not allow photography without tribal permission. Usually through the purchase of a permit, with conditions attached.
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yeah this is true out here on our rezervation we have the same policies what it comes down to is the tribal lands are sacred out here on the rezervation you cant find a place that wasnt touched by our ancestors, alot of tribal goverments dont allow photography because for instance people can mark a area that has say old burial grounds, pottery, artifacts stuff like that and come back later to take the stuff. even some of our moutains have carvings and people have come and stolen the rocks or cut out the carvings. believe me i have seen this first hand i used to work in our tribal archeology department.

As for the havasupai they are i think the poorest tribe in Arizona, but they really dont have a choice they mostly rely on tourism for income, they live in the bottem of the canyon so im sure it is difficult...

but as for the pictures i kinda agree with you guys about that you cant expect people to go to this place and not want to take pictures. But its there choice.
 
Here is an interesting artice from the LA Times about the tribe's goal - their master plan calls for a cable car going from the rim of the Grand Canyon down to the Colorado.

Where will it stop?
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At the top and at the bottom, presumably ;)
 
I'm following James, comments and I know that if I go on the Hopi reservation, photography is not permitted. Disappointing but I lived with it. I understand the reasoning is all he described and more. I just think that the concept is at odds with what is being offered to the public as a commercial enterprise.

I am also aware that the tribe has several splits that run deep due to this issue. It is probably their best efforts at trying to manage a situation that is contentious within the tribal membership. It may result in fewer visitors however it is their attempt to do something to generate a few dollars. This tribe is not the Navajo Nation. I have a little empathy for them in this one.

I just hope they can recover some of their outlay while maintaining some benfits for the tribe as a whole and the social cost is worthwhile. Certainly there are many naysayers on the other side of the canyon where the historic action has always been. It's a long drive there and a lot of time and dollars for a "one note tune". I think those will be bigger issues than the no camera one.

I wish them good luck.
 
I have been to the Hopi reservation as well and it was clear from the get-go that photography was not allowed on their land and that is perfectly OK. What irks me about the situation at the West Rim is that you are allowed to take pictures everywhere, EXCEPT the sky walk. We'll see how things develop, down the road all this might change. I'm afraid that once the novelty wears off, they will struggle to get people to visit the West Rim - just as they have in the recent past.
 
dmr said:
The plot thickens ... here's a cut-paste from Usenet (yeah yeah, I know ...):



I'm not sure what they mean by "Stationed Cameras", but I kind of assume they will be like those pay binoculars that never seem to work right.

IMAO they are already setting the price point too high, and the no camera regulation is just another thing that lowers the value of the thing to the visitor.
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If it is like the London Eye attraction - Stationed cameras take pictures of eveyone as the pass through the attraction, then, once you have come out the other side you can see yourself and partner on a TV looking confused with a bunch of kids and seniors who also are looking in the wrong direction and who apear to be part of your extended family, even though you've never met them.

Worse still, some of them super impose you on a sunny background - in case it raining:eek:
 
jan normandale said:
Its disrespectful of me but I have a hunch there is a marketing genius behind this policy "we'll lose revenue because once people see pictures they won't need to come".
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Or they will have pictures/slides to sell you.
 
ywenz said:
Aren't you taking a bit of an elitist attitude? What is considered "ruined" to you might be called "more accessible" to others. Not everyone is able to raft down the colorado river and camp outdoors. This skywalk could be a gift to many people.
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Now that the "elitists" have successfully lobbied for the return of the buffalo, the preservation of the bald eagle, these will soon become "more accessible" to others. It'd be a disaster if the same "elitists" (that include teachers, politicians, professors, scientists, and concerned native people who are directly impacted) ever get concerned with such a self-cleaning, perpetually-lasting Grand Canyon.
 
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