Where have you found statistics to back this up? I would imagine native lens users outweigh legacy lens users pretty heavily. Vocal camera experts only matter to forum / blog geeks like us (and maybe not even to us much). I would imagine many, many NEX cameras were sold to people who just wanted something better than their phone and smaller than a DSLR. Companies like Sony cannot rely on only people that really into photography to survive. They have to sell to many consumers who just want a camera for family/friend photos. Those people do not care what vocal camera experts are saying because they don;t know who those people are.
Seems to support my point above...
Spanik
Well-known
Yep, that thingy is too small. If you cannot fit the viewfinder in it, it is too small.
uhoh7
Veteran
LOL that's a good one tooYou are not aware of this camera?
But the prism comes with a high price, and today the SL shows there's a viable alternative.
Yeah, I heard that all the time when I predicted we would see a FF nex someday. "Why would they bother?" It's just a niche. LOL
The people you describe as a customer base just use their phones now. I think you way undersell people who will buy something more than a phone today. They are interested in photography. The kind of interest which made that Nikon F such a phenom.
Do a google image search on Nex 5n. You will see a non native lens appear early on, despite the mass advertising of product images. Across asia the camera was shown with an unbelievable variety of lenses. No camera in history has had more different lenses mounted on it. You think nobody but you and me noticed that?
A search 'Nex 5n Lens' the 7th result is:
Make that thing FF, integrate a Leica SL EVF on top, and Oskar Barnack would drool.
And a bunch of people today would buy it
I never said it was a niche. I said that I believe Sony sells its cameras more to native lens users than to legacy lens users. I work in a big tourist area in NYC. I see mirrorless cameras all of the time. It's very rare to see a legacy lens. Extremely rare. Sure, you see it on the internet because that where people that are into making photos of cameras with legacy lenses attached hang out.
Sure, some are interested in photography, and many will only use their phones, but there are plenty who still own a regular camera. Most people I know that aren't into photography still have a camera other than their phone... be it a DSLR or a mirrorless. I work in a mainstream industry (non photo related) and everyone I work with has a separate camera other than a phone. A phone is convenient, but it isn't that great for sports / action / telephoto - zoom stuff. The non photographer loves zooms!
When the Nikon F was introduced, I wonder how it sold in comparison to all of the Kodak P&S cameras that were around? I doubt it was as big of a phenomenon as you think it was based on its price alone.
I think it is easy to think this if all you do is go to gear sites and all. And sure, mirrorless cameras opened up the possibility of using legacy lenses... so of course it was a big deal to some. But you'll never convince me that more users are using legacy lenses than native lenses. That's just silly. I've been to japan... I saw mirrorless cameras, but not any legacy lenses attached. Times Sq NYC? I'll find mirrorless cameras, but it'll be rare to see a legacy lens.
giganova
Well-known
Not a big loss. Samsung never made a single product I was tempted the buy.
uhoh7
Veteran
The Kodak P&S Cameras were the phone cameras of the day.
I don't doubt you don't see people with legacy lenses on their cameras, but you miss my point. First, only a very few cameras of any kind really have many legacy options. So, you are down to Sonys and Leicas, and maybe a Nikon DF or Fuji. Second, I did not claim everyone buying the Nex was going to use legacy lenses all the time. I said it made the reputation of the camera. Sony fully admits this, so I am not stating something outlandish. The whole A7 system was marketed with the legacy lens option front and center! "Sure we don't have many lenses", but you can use any!! Sony reps far and wide touted this. Why? Just internet geeks?
Here is a A7r2 review with 223K hits by a guy who uses the camera but does not own a native lens!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7-RRqUsDMQ
Besides the obvious flexibility advantage, you make your camera friendly to legacy glass (which Sony has not), not because everyone is going to do it, but because it's sexy as heck.
There is nothing nothing sexy about a D810 or any of the lenses that go on it. But they do work well. If you are going to wean people from them you need EVERY reason possible. Size, system, and flexibility. Then you will win.
Sony has size, that's it. They claim flexibility, but design for the opposite with the unusual thick cover over the sensor. They are cutting edge now with 4K, but still powered by the nex-5 battery! They have no "system" just a hodgepodge of lenses, many of which are very poorly made and very expensive. Still they are making a killing.
Somebody who does it right? That will be a revolution like the Leica II and Nikon F.
Lss
Well-known
You already answered why. You sell a system camera by having a system. When you don't have one, you make it up. I don't remember how A7 was marketed, but they absolutely needed to distract buyers from dwelling on the initial lack of native lenses.
Leica does the same with SL right now. The huge difference is that they actually have thought about compatibility with (their own) existing lenses. Sony, not so much.
btgc
Veteran
They made interesting wide zoom compact with 1/1.8" sensor (OK for its time), also Pentax DSLR clones, two years ago I considered some of NX with native small lens as take-everywhere. Samsung isn't tier1 camera maker for sure, but I disagree they have never made anything interesting.
I realize - requirements differ, so I'm speaking only for myself.
Bille
Well-known
Addy101
Well-known
Well, Sony did some things right and some things wrong. They seem to do the "try and see" approach of engineering. But here, you're wrong, let me explain:
Sony did actually think about compatibility with (their own) existing lenses - they made two (affordable) adapters with the NEX and two with the A7 to go with the new cameras and the existing Minolta/Sony A-mount lenses.
Lss
Well-known
Fair enough. "Their own" was really directed at Leica who is not too interested in supporting other companies' lenses (and I'm not saying they should be). While making sure they support their own lenses, they also made the camera attractive for many other older systems. (This in terms of performance, not price.) Sony with their thick filter stack, not so much. I am certainly biased based on my own lenses on this topic.
I do agree that this was said, but I truly think it was stated for a certain user type, not the average consumer. I'll stand by my point that I think consumer electronics companies like Sony and Samsung need to sell in volume, and to sell in volume, you need the average consumer buying your product. Sony is doing that and Samsung couldn't.