another story about public photography being 'suspicious'

[JoeFriday]

THIS ARTICLE talks about a man who was detained by police in New York City for videotaping on a public street.

Last May, Sharma was approached by police after he shot footage of traffic emerging from an underpass near Grand Central Terminal for about half an hour, the lawsuit said.

An officer asked him why he was filming the MetLife building, which sits atop the underpass, and he explained he was filming traffic and had only tilted his camera up to capture sunlight hitting buildings, the lawsuit said.

The officer then told him he thought it was suspicious that he was filming a "sensitive building," formerly the Pan Am building, for 30 minutes and that further investigation was necessary, the lawsuit said.

Sharma said he felt stunned and scared after he turned the camera on to show officers what his filming looked like, only to have one of them charge at him, shove him in the chest and grab the camera.

He said he felt ashamed and humiliated when he was kept on the street for about two hours as hundreds of people passed by or gathered to stare. Detectives later apologized after taking him to a police precinct, searching his camera and then returning it scratched and cracked, the lawsuit said.

I personally am not among the 'black helicopter, our government is fascist' crowd.. but there does seem to be a growing sentiment in law enforcement that public photography is 'suspicious' or 'intrusive'

 

[Solinar]

I don't know about Wisconsin, but in Austin, Texas - all of the above could happen here.

 

[Mike Kovacs]

The name "Sharma" conjures images of a "brown person" to me. Another SAD case of racial discrimination.

 

[kmack]

I think the key here is the name "Sharma". I doubt that he is a lilly white WASPish kind of guy. I doubt that I would be harrased for taking pictures of buildings, but if I were to start taking pictures of children in a public park... I can look pretty seedy at times.

 

[cp_ste.croix]

Keeping in mind that my best friend is becoming a police officer, I've noticed, in Canada at least, there are very few pre-requisites to becoming a police officer other than a desire to do so and being physically fit.

While most police officers are sadly stained when the cowboys are noted, a more rigourous screening process might serve to help change the parts of police culture that we, as a public, might be uncomfortable with.

 

[Andy K]

I think to be a cop you have to be lacking the common sense gene. Don't these dummies in uniform realise that a terrorist is unlikely to stand in public and blatantly film things? They would be more likely to use a small, discrete digital camera to get photographs? Or failing that they would most likely use Google Earth.

 

[Mike Kovacs]

I can see how it could become a very frustrating job, especially as time drags on. I have a friend that is a police officer too, and his biggest strengths are COMPASSION and PATIENCE. By all means, he is not a push-over, but wearing these traits under his hat rather than on his chest makes him a more effective police officer (aka ringmaster, enforcer, diffusor, confidente, protector, leader, hero)

Its not a job I would accept willingly! I don't have patience for dealing with some people, and I think this is where a lot of police run into trouble.

 

[wdenies]

Is this a sample of the present American freedom?
Question from Europe

 

[JoeFriday]

no, this is an exception to the rule, which is why it's making news.. if this were happening everywhere every day, you wouldn't be reading about it

but as we all know, we have to be diligent about protecting our rights.. that's why we need to watch for these incidents and make others aware

 

[oftheherd]

I think to be a cop you have to be lacking the common sense gene. Don't these dummies in uniform realise that a terrorist is unlikely to stand in public and blatantly film things? They would be more likely to use a small, discrete digital camera to get photographs? Or failing that they would most likely use Google Earth.

Well, for what it's worth, I have made a point of getting to know and informally study some police officers over the years. Some of them were indeed rather dense. Some were quite educated. Some lacked any common sense, but others seemed endowed with a great deal of it. I have known some that took it as a sacred duty to write up any infraction of the law they observed. Others I have seen sometimes decided that for minor infractions, a warning might suffice without costing the person anything more than time and some small embarassment. I have noted that some do indeed get into police work for the power over others they can wield, while others obviously thought of it as a way to help their fellow man. Interestingly, not a single one of them I questioned related having been born cops. To a person, they had been born as babies and only later decided they wanted to be cops.

As I said, it was an informal study, but I have come to the conclusion that most cops are (shudder) human. They most often do good, but can be bad or mistaken.

The above is somewhat tongue in cheek, but one thing is worth noting. They are there to enforce law as they are given to understand it. Perhaps it is the law-makers who should be the the target of anger. The cops are more of a messenger if you think about it. And when they are wrong, they are still subject to law themselves, whether criminal or civil, as noted in the start of the thread, where there was a lawsuit against the officers. The court/jury will decide if they crossed the bounds.

I'll be quiet now.

 

[ch1]

THIS ARTICLE talks about a man who was detained by police in New York City for videotaping on a public street.

Last May, Sharma was approached by police after he shot footage of traffic emerging from an underpass near Grand Central Terminal for about half an hour, the lawsuit said.

An officer asked him why he was filming the MetLife building, which sits atop the underpass, and he explained he was filming traffic and had only tilted his camera up to capture sunlight hitting buildings, the lawsuit said.

The officer then told him he thought it was suspicious that he was filming a "sensitive building," formerly the Pan Am building, for 30 minutes and that further investigation was necessary, the lawsuit said.

Sharma said he felt stunned and scared after he turned the camera on to show officers what his filming looked like, only to have one of them charge at him, shove him in the chest and grab the camera.

He said he felt ashamed and humiliated when he was kept on the street for about two hours as hundreds of people passed by or gathered to stare. Detectives later apologized after taking him to a police precinct, searching his camera and then returning it scratched and cracked, the lawsuit said.

I personally am not among the 'black helicopter, our government is fascist' crowd.. but there does seem to be a growing sentiment in law enforcement that public photography is 'suspicious' or 'intrusive'

Brett,

This incident occurred in May 2005 - shortly after the Madrid train station bombings when NYC generally, and GC particularly were under high alert.

The officer was probably over-eager and now there is a lawsuit.

So it sounds as if the system is "working". A citizen feels his rights were violated and is suing the government over it.

George

 

[ch1]

The name "Sharma" conjures images of a "brown person" to me. Another SAD case of racial discrimination.

This is total speculation! How do you know this? You do not , can not and are being inflammatory.

 

[ch1]

Is this a sample of the present American freedom?
Question from Europe

Here we go again. A query from Eurpose - say, BTW, what's the state of affairs in the Paris suburbs these days anyway? Have they lifted the curfews and lockdowns?

If you really think that a website posting about a lawsuit is a comment on the state of American freedom then I suggest you come here to NYC and check it out. The holiday Euro tourist crunch is over and we now have plenty of hotel rooms available for you to stay in.

Heck, I might as well do something to help the economy rather than trying to reason with this kind of a post! 😀

 

[Mike Kovacs]

It didn't "perhaps" conjure images of an Indo-American to me. It did.

BTW, I worked in New York for a good 6 months in late 2001-2002, residing in the 87th and 1st Ave area. I am not ignorant of the issues. So the NYPD have the right to rough an Indian (or any) person up because they suspect something while said person is conducting perfectly legal activities in public? I had been asked before not to photograph architectural details of the NYSE by the NYPD in 2002. I didn't like it, but then the cops weren't assaulting me, detaining me and breaking my Nikon either.

PS I feel sorry for your ignorance of geography: Belgium is not part of France, of which Paris is the capital city. I'm not going to be flame baited any further.

 

[varjag]

A problem with policemen is the system they're involved in. Here, most policemen are not bad people per se, hate their jobs at times, like to pass a beer with friends or watch a football match, but wouldn't think twice about kicking your ass given an order from supervisors.

Human consciousness is tuned towards self-indulgence; very few people think of themselves as of bad guys. If one is odered or conditioned to violate a law, but his pension, apartments, and family wellbeing depends on the job, it is very easy to come up with rationalizations on why such actions are justified, or why you can't avoid doing that. Besides, all your colleagues are doing just the same anyway, so you can't be wrong!

Granted the situation is not that out of hand in the USA, but keep it in mind. Large organizations (law enforcement included) are not just the sum of its employees, they have their own interests, agendas and inclinations. It is entirely possible to tweak the system out of balance just with a few precise legislations, and more often in direction of degradation than not.

It is quite important to stand for even such mundane things as photographer's rights. You can't change the world, but you can, to an extent, raise awareness among policemen about their own actions.

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

This is total speculation! How do you know this? You do not , can not and are being inflammatory.

I don't believe he is being inflammatory; one of the definitions of "to conjure" is "to imagine". His point, while perhaps not properly phrased, is that this is not a "Regular Joe" in the context of a society where the majority is caucasian. And this may explain one of the actions of the police officer: racial profiling.

But your other point is valid too: we don't know that. We don't know all the facts. So before we start getting on each other throats, we should just stick to the initial post: public photography perceived as being "suspicious". And the problem is that we all have our prejudices, whether we're aware of them or not. And this is made worse when law enforcement is given free reign without the proper common sense.

At root is the issue of resources: if local governments were properly funded, they'd invest in properly training the right people. But local governments aren't properly funded because nobody likes to pay their taxes, and certain figures like to play that card. If there was a higher sense of civic duty, people would vote for responsible government, not for cash rebates. So you get what you pay for.

And if you complain? You're a "bad American". So do like a good comarade and let's all hail the Beloved Leader and stand 100% with the Government Knows Best Act.

 

[ch1]

Hey🙂

"It described Sharma as a conscientious, law-abiding resident of Mumbai, India, who had never been arrested or detained by law enforcement officials before his New York experience."

While a "perhaps" may have been wise in the post to which you refer, I think that the chances are that someone called Sharma from Mumbai/Bombay is unlikely to be of Nordic appearance.

ManGo

ManGo,

Apparently it has been some time since you've been to NYC.

40% of the current NYC population was born outside the U.S. (and presently 60% of all babies born here have non-US born parents) And I can assure you that all these people didn't come from northern Europe (thank goodness!). They are immigrants are from all over the world,yes, including the Indian subcontient.

If you walk down most avenues in NYC during any day of the week you would have a much harder time finding a person of Nordic appearance than one of a, shall we say, darker complexion.

Now I could ask Seetla Chandla, Indian descent by way of Guyana, who is sitting outside my office, how often she is stopped by the police on the streets. Or perhaps P. Ngai, originally from the Philipines could do so. Then there is Jeanette or Gerry or Miriam etc. who a Latinos. Winston, Afro-American from the Bronx is here. How about I ask him.? Problem is, they'd all think I was nuts to do so.


To be honest, because I work in a German bank, I actually can find a few Nordic looking types around the office - but they are a small minority even here!

Oh, and BTW, why do you assume that the police officer was white? Probably a third of the present NYC police force is non-white (at least under the "traditional" definitions) and the newest class of recruits is, for the first time, more than half non-white.

So,like the Belgian chap, I suggest you come over here for a visit. When can we expect you? January is always a slow tourist time and we'd love to have you stop by.

 

[Al Patterson]

Time to start IQ testing police?

Time to start IQ testing police?

I'm sure it is probably a small number, but if 5% of all cops are idiots, that's a large number.

(Most police are doing the best they can in a dangerous job, but too many of these type of events are occuring. )

 

[cp_ste.croix]

Every profession with any ammount of power invested in it will invariably corrupt some of it's members; rather than concentrating on how terrible these case are, I think we might shift focus to how to avoid this particualr pitfall. We all have prejudices that we should all be working on and so casting stones seems counter-productive to me.

Just my two cents, and I will bow out with only an admonishment to remain civil and respectfull.

 

[oftheherd]

I'm sure it is probably a small number, but if 5% of all cops are idiots, that's a large number.

(Most police are doing the best they can in a dangerous job, but too many of these type of events are occuring. )

I think 5% of any profession being idiots would be a large number. I would be interested in your source for your 5% figure.

Come on folks. Nobody wants to be unduly harassed, nor do any of us want to give up rights. If those two were wrong the courts should take care of it. Wrong or not, don't be too quick to paint everyone in blue with the same brush.