Another thread on WEDDING...

[hiwatt]

Apologies for the "clichè thread" but it's going to be my first time...

Next Saturday I'm going to shoot a cousin's wedding, they didn't want an official/professional photog and kindly asked me for some "snapshots".
It's going to be my wedding present, so I'm a bit nervous as to what to bring and how to use it.

Here's an idea of the lineup:

M6 w/cv21 and neopan1600 for church indoors (small church, not much available light)

Bessa R3A w/nokton40 1.4 and Kodak Portra 400 for ceremony and 160NC for portraits in exteriors

Sigma DSLR w/24-70 2.8 because I need the comforts of a digital "brick".

Based on your experience do you think three cameras is too much?
I'm really scared about the non-repeatable shots of the ceremony (I'm going to shoot half in b&w and half in colour), do you have any suggestion?
Would you bring some Portra800 just in case it's very dark, or is it just a waste of time?
Should I risk taking some slide film instead?

I know this kind of subject it's been treated ad-nauseam, guess I need some reassurance from fellow RRFers... 🙂

 

[clarence]

Skip the slide film, please. No one projects their slides anymore, and the colour representation on either Portra or the Fuji films is more than adequate for weddings.

I would bring some 800 speed film along, just to be on the safe side. 400 isn't enough for my church, even with all the lights on. Also, do consider using filters or tungsten balanced film, depending on the lighting. On the other hand, you could just use the DSLR for those shots in difficult lighting.

Do remember to check with the priest / pastor whether flash photography is allowed, and at what points of the ceremony.

Finally, make sure that they do have an official photographer around to do all the standard shots and portraits. You don't want to be caught in a difficult position.

Clarence

 

[ClaremontPhoto]

Go to the church with a friend this week and take a few practice shots to work out the light and the best film.

 

[Kin Lau]

Sounds like you have it covered. Since you already have NP1600 in the M6, I wouldn't bother with fast colour film, use the dslr for that.

The M6 + NP1600 + 40/1.4 should make for some very nice available light shots.

If you're allowed to use flash, and the ceilings are white or at least light coloured, try shooting with a strong flash vertically and iso400 (film or digital, easier to test with the dslr). You may be pleasantly surprised by the results.

 

[clarence]

Actually it's not quite clear from the original post whether there will be two photographers, with one being the official photographer, and the other providing the candid 'snapshots', or whether there will only be one.

Or perhaps I'm the only one who's confused.

Clarence

 

[hiwatt]

Sorry for not making it clear in the first post: I will be the only guy around with a camera (there's no official photog), hence my hesitation and my fears...
I must also add that the couple is not interested in a traditional photo job of the event, they just want me to take some pics.

In a way I'm returning my cousin's gift for my wedding: since he's a plastic surgeon his gift was free plastic surgery for life (for me and the wife)... 😀

What I want to end up with is 40/50 decent shots in a nice book...

 

[BrianShaw]

Sorry for not making it clear in the first post: I will be the only guy around with a camera (there's no official photog), hence my hesitation and my fears...
I must also add that the couple is not interested in a traditional photo job of the event, they just want me to take some pics.

Start establishing the following mind-set:

- YOU ARE THE OFFICIAL PHOTOGRAPHER
- THE COUPLE WILL LIKELY CHANGE THEIR MIND ABOUT NOT WANTING THE "TRADITIONAL SHOTS"

I've "been there and done that". I've ALWAYS turned down wedding requests, but have done several wedding and significant birthday receptions, and other similar dinner/dance-type of events.

Bring lots of film and lots of batteries. Stick to a limited number of films and shoot negative only.

The worse things that can happen are: running out of film; running out of batteries; missing an important shot; forgetting to reset the meter when you change film. (Actually, the absolute worst thing that happened to me was arriving at an event at which I was an invited guest without a camera... only to find out that the host assumed, but never asked, that I'd be taking pictures.)

Beware the potentially unreasonable requests that are inevitable: "oh, I'd like a picture of each guest standing with me (the bride) individually" and "since you're here, and my (a guest) family is all here, and you're already paid for... would you take a formal portrait of my family?"

Good luck... and have fun. Look for the unique shots!

 

[ClaremontPhoto]

Buy a bunch of disposables and hand them out. Make sure to give some to kids. Those shots will complement yours.

And many guests will bring digital cameras, ask them to email you their pictures too.

When you come to make up an album or website you'll get a true picture of the day that guests remember not the usual 2 dimensional relatives (who dislike each other) standing grinning at the camera.

 

[clarence]

Start establishing the following mind-set:

- YOU ARE THE OFFICIAL PHOTOGRAPHER
- THE COUPLE WILL LIKELY CHANGE THEIR MIND ABOUT NOT WANTING THE "TRADITIONAL SHOTS"

I absolutely agree. You can only be prepared to an extent, of course. Then again, you might want to leave the 400W strobes (and an assistant) in the car in case you need them for a group portrait.

You've probably been there already, but the Weddings sub-forum on p.net is an incredibly rich source of information.

Clarence

 

[hiwatt]

Buy a bunch of disposables and hand them out. Make sure to give some to kids. Those shots will complement yours.

And many guests will bring digital cameras, ask them to email you their pictures too.

When you come to make up an album or website you'll get a true picture of the day that guests remember not the usual 2 dimensional relatives (who dislike each other) standing grinning at the camera.

...I'm definitely going to do that, thanks. Actually, I'll bring my portable HD storage thingy and dowload other people's memory cards there and then...hehe 😀

And I'll probably add some polaroids as well (to be shot by kids or another relative).

 

[bmattock]

I agree with all the information and advice being given. It was not that long ago I was shooting my first wedding, and I got great and helpful advice right here - so pay attention!

I'd add one thing only - bring a step ladder. You would be amazed how often you can make a wedding shot better by getting up in the air a bit and aiming down. You can move it as you go. Remember, you ARE the official photographer.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[Socke]

For my liking the 21 is a bit wide but the combination 21 and 40 should be great. The longer part is covered with the dSLR.

I second the no slide motion, I like slides for scanning and Elitechrome or Sensia 100 is cheaper than print film here, but over ISO100 I prefer print film.
I wasn't impressed by Kodak Royal 800 but like Fujipress 800 and Superia 800, it has less grain in the dark areas.

So just one more thing I'd bring, a tripod!

 

[clarence]

I'd add one thing only - bring a step ladder. You would be amazed how often you can make a wedding shot better by getting up in the air a bit and aiming down. You can move it as you go. Remember, you ARE the official photographer.

You just reminded me of this amazing wedding shot I saw on p.net once. I can't find it now.

It was taken directly above the bride, just as she was turning, and so the train of her dress made a perfect spiral.

Clarence

 

[ClaremontPhoto]

Most wedding photography is cheesy.

My neighbor has a professional wedding studio and each week I look in the window: there is always the bride, by herself on her back on a bed of hay. What's that about?

And there's always the groom fondling his favorite posession - this week the guy is dressed up ready to get married and he's fondling a mountain bike.

Unbelievable.

Still, the neighbor makes more than I do and drives a new Mercedes every year.

 

[bmattock]

Most wedding photography is cheesy.

My neighbor has a professional wedding studio and each week I look in the window: there is always the bride, by herself on her back on a bed of hay. What's that about?

And there's always the groom fondling his favorite posession - this week the guy is dressed up ready to get married and he's fondling a mountain bike.

Unbelievable.

Still, the neighbor makes more than I do and drives a new Mercedes every year.

Cheesy or cheesecake?

The only time 'fetish' photography is 'ok' for most civilians is when they get married. Think about it, the only other times they seek professional photographers out is prom night, graduations, religious ceremonies, and anniversaries. Weddings are the only time they get to let it go a bit - started with the 'bridal portrait' and went from there.

"Boudoir" photography was hot a decade ago - I think it died out. This is what's left.

Me, I want to become the first official photographer of Apartment Wrestling. Hot stuff.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

 

[ywenz]

Most wedding photography is cheesy.

My neighbor has a professional wedding studio and each week I look in the window: there is always the bride, by herself on her back on a bed of hay. What's that about?

And there's always the groom fondling his favorite posession - this week the guy is dressed up ready to get married and he's fondling a mountain bike.

Unbelievable.

Still, the neighbor makes more than I do and drives a new Mercedes every year.

MOre power to your neighbor! I'd like to have his customer base and make enough dough to get a new Benz each year. Stop hatin'

 

[T_om]

First, I think fiddling about with three cameras will be counter-productive at the very least.

Choose a main camera and a backup. Keep the third camera in a bag nearby, but don't really count on using it unless it is a last resort.

Pick your lens selection to cover wide to medium tele. If you can only pick one lens, something in the 24-70 range like my Canon 2.8L, or a 28-75 2.8 like Tamron makes will cover the whole shoot. Pick any other lens for special effects or special case shots (super wide, fisheye, etc.) and put it in your pocket. Your main camera and backup should have basically the same lens on each as you want to be able to instantly change if one camera dies. It has happened to me as the Bride was coming down the aisle. If you are standing there shooting this and your main camera has a 24-70 and it dies and your backup has a 200mm tele mounted, you're screwed.

If you use the digital as the main camera (which I would do) have enough CF cards to cover the entire event without downloading on site. That is folly. CF cards are cheap. I use a mix of Ridata and Hitachi MicroDrives, all 4GB capacity and I carry 11 of them on each shoot. I shot a little over a thousand shots at my Friday evening wedding (see the Marie & Jeremy 5/5/06 wedding proofs on my site, no color correction, just proofs right out of the camera) and only used 4 and half cards.

Use bounce light if ever you can. Direct flash sucks. If your Sigma has a ETTL metering system that 'talks' to the flash unit, USE IT. Experiment beforehand to see what sort of range you can expect. If you are lucky enough for this to be an all-daylight shoot, use the flash for fill light so eye sockets don't end up looking like people are wearing raccoon masks.

A quality incident meter is your friend. USE IT. It will add consistency to your exposures making post-processing much easier.

If you go with film, I prefer Fuji NPH and NPS to the Kodak emulsions, but that is just personal preference. I have not shot a film wedding in a while.

Again, SIMPLIFY, cut weight and complexity. While you are standing there contemplating what camera/ lens combination to use, SOMETHING will be happening that you should be shooting instead.

Go over in your head beforehand how the wedding will progress. They are almost all alike in how they play out. PLAN AHEAD on exactly where you should be standing for every 'event' that will unfold. Don't be caught at the back of the church when you should be at the front, etc.

Take enough 'detail' shots to tie the wedding together. Flowers, rings, cake, etc.

That will get you started.

Tom

 

[hiwatt]

Wow Tom,
that's a serious set of valuable informations you give me, thanks!

Let's start from saying that I'm not expected to deliver anything like a pro (at least that's what I was told 😉 )

Having said that, I wanted to produce something of a mix analogue/digital, and the digital side will be covered lenswise with a Sigma 24/70 2.8 (not exactly the Canon L glass but neither trash).
Storage isn't going to be an issue: my SD10 only shoots raw and I can fit 150 pics on a 1GB CF (of which I got 3), the main asset is going to be my portable-battery powered 80GB drive (it's palm size and it's also going to be useful to eventually "steal" other participants' snapshots).

With digital I'm definitely going to use a TTL flash (guide n.50) bounced off the ceiling (it's low for a church and not too dark).

I also wanted to add some available light RF shots, hence the M6, with colour film and, possibly, the wideangle B&W shots with another camera to be used briefly (whole church towards the end of the ceremony, whole dinner party -it's just 80 people, a couple of special effect shots).

I'll make a mental note to shoot enough details. :angel:

Thanks again for the valuable info!
Gus.

First, I think fiddling about with three cameras will be counter-productive at the very least.

Choose a main camera and a backup. Keep the third camera in a bag nearby, but don't really count on using it unless it is a last resort.

Pick your lens selection to cover wide to medium tele. If you can only pick one lens, something in the 24-70 range like my Canon 2.8L, or a 28-75 2.8 like Tamron makes will cover the whole shoot. Pick any other lens for special effects or special case shots (super wide, fisheye, etc.) and put it in your pocket. Your main camera and backup should have basically the same lens on each as you want to be able to instantly change if one camera dies. It has happened to me as the Bride was coming down the aisle. If you are standing there shooting this and your main camera has a 24-70 and it dies and your backup has a 200mm tele mounted, you're screwed.

If you use the digital as the main camera (which I would do) have enough CF cards to cover the entire event without downloading on site. That is folly. CF cards are cheap. I use a mix of Ridata and Hitachi MicroDrives, all 4GB capacity and I carry 11 of them on each shoot. I shot a little over a thousand shots at my Friday evening wedding (see the Marie & Jeremy 5/5/06 wedding proofs on my site, no color correction, just proofs right out of the camera) and only used 4 and half cards.

Use bounce light if ever you can. Direct flash sucks. If your Sigma has a ETTL metering system that 'talks' to the flash unit, USE IT. Experiment beforehand to see what sort of range you can expect. If you are lucky enough for this to be an all-daylight shoot, use the flash for fill light so eye sockets don't end up looking like people are wearing raccoon masks.

A quality incident meter is your friend. USE IT. It will add consistency to your exposures making post-processing much easier.

If you go with film, I prefer Fuji NPH and NPS to the Kodak emulsions, but that is just personal preference. I have not shot a film wedding in a while.

Again, SIMPLIFY, cut weight and complexity. While you are standing there contemplating what camera/ lens combination to use, SOMETHING will be happening that you should be shooting instead.

Go over in your head beforehand how the wedding will progress. They are almost all alike in how they play out. PLAN AHEAD on exactly where you should be standing for every 'event' that will unfold. Don't be caught at the back of the church when you should be at the front, etc.

Take enough 'detail' shots to tie the wedding together. Flowers, rings, cake, etc.

That will get you started.

Tom

 

[hiwatt]

Cheesy or cheesecake?

The only time 'fetish' photography is 'ok' for most civilians is when they get married. Think about it, the only other times they seek professional photographers out is prom night, graduations, religious ceremonies, and anniversaries. Weddings are the only time they get to let it go a bit - started with the 'bridal portrait' and went from there.

"Boudoir" photography was hot a decade ago - I think it died out. This is what's left.

Me, I want to become the first official photographer of Apartment Wrestling. Hot stuff.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks

On a different kind of fetish...the pro photographer that shot at my wedding managed to -intentionally- produce also a few rolls of cross-processed E6.
I'm not going to venture into that territory myself 😀

 

[wtl]

the worst crime anyone can possibly commit is to agree on doing a job that one is incompetant of doing. since you have never done a wedding before, i would insist to have a pro. hired. you can take snap shots that you are comfortable of taking as extra documentary.

i believe wedding photography involves more than snap shots that a street photographer can easily accomplish. but i don't do wedding often enough to give much advice. for this very reason, i do not insist on doing wedding for anyone, except a few friends in the past who have seen enough of my stuff and know very well of what they will be getting before i agree. in return of the favor, my condition, as a street shooter, is to be able to get in any room and any corner, at at time throughout the event, and before and after.

i don't take any formal shots for that matter. if they want that to be done, again, there are lots pros out there...

don't get embarrassed to tell them that you are not a wedding photographer but a snap shooter (as you mentioned). same thing that a chemical engineer cannot design a house for someone, though he gets a title as "professional engineer". or a dentist cannot cure a heart disease or cancer.

i think you got too much equipment there...

not to discourage but just my 2 cents...