Ansco Super Memar /(Agfa Super Silette)

[FallisPhoto]

I got an Ansco Super Memar in the mail today and the focus adjustment is frozen. I understand this is a common problem and that this is the same camera that was sold in Europe, by Agfa, under the name "Super Silette," So I looked up the instructions for unsticking a Super Silette. First the instructions said to remove the focus ring. I did that. So far, so good. Then it says "Having removed the focus ring, take out the front element by unscrewing it." and that is where I am stuck. That lens element won't budge. It is in there solid as a rock. I've soaked it in lighter fluid to loosen it, but at least so far that has been to no avail. Has anyone else run into this problem? Have I missed something? Were the instructions I was following incomplete, or is it just stuck? I thought it would be a good idea to ask around before I resort to the padded pliers and trying to force it and risk breaking it.

 

[FallisPhoto]

Okay, after being underwhelmed by responses to this and other posts, I used the pliers and finally got the lenses out; apparently some of that green grease Agfa used had strayed where it shouldn't have gone. Now I'm soaking the two lenses, attached semi-permanently to one another by the infamous green grease, in a film cannister full of lighter fluid.

 

[literiter]

Camera tools and information.

Camera tools and information.

Okay, after being underwhelmed by responses to this and other posts, I used the pliers and finally got the lenses out; apparently some of that green grease Agfa used had strayed where it shouldn't have gone. Now I'm soaking the two lenses, attached semi-permanently to one another by the infamous green grease, in a film cannister full of lighter fluid.

I should have responded, but I was sure someone else would have.

Should you pursue this adventure into camera repair may I offer these suggestions:
-look for the fantastic books by Thomas Thomosy on camera maintenance and repair.
-Go to the Micro Tools site for some basic tools such as lens spanners etc.
-The green grease can be hard to remove, I have had no luck with lighter fluid on this stuff. Try scraping with your fingernails or carefully with a wood stick.
-stay away from pliers! Pliers scratch cameras.

 

[MartinP]

I didn't see the original post. If the lighter fluid doesn't do the trick, then try a tiny amount of acetone, as described in various places on these two sites. I managed to be lucky enough not to need it, but that was sheer chance. Good luck 🙂


http://www.davidrichert.com/AGFA%20rebuild/agfa.htm

http://www.ph.utexas.edu/%7Eyue/misc/AnscAgfa.html

 

[FallisPhoto]

Well, I got them apart, but the lighter fluid was ineffective. What finally worked was putting the lenses on a table, outdoors in the sun, on a hot day. The heat softened the grease enough to get them apart and THEN the lighter fluid worked for cleaning them up. All that is left to do is to calibrate the lenses.

 

[FallisPhoto]

Well, here it is:

 

[Ashton]

Holy thread resurrection!

OK, I have a somewhat weird version of the early super silette. As you can see, its a Solinar 3.5/45 lens in a Synchro-Compur shutter.

Among other front-end issues it seems to be suffering hardened grease. The focus is unbelievably stiff to turn. The other rings are only believably stiff. The apature works ok, but the shutter is playing weird games. It cocks, then half-closes on its own. It doesn't respond when the shutter release is pressed, and doesn't release on the auto setting.

Previous owner is a pro-photographer and advised that the camera had never been apart to his knowledge - there are no witness marks so he could well be right.

I've watched through Mac's fantastic flckr album of a teardown, but his lens is the bigger brother to mine, so I am a little leery about following it to the letter.

I have been able to get the front ring off to start working my way in. But nothing is moving in there...

Or should I just pour gallons of isopropyl alcohol into every crevice and furiously work everything to free it up?

 

[Greyscale]

Holy thread resurrection!

OK, I have a somewhat weird version of the early super silette. As you can see, its a Solinar 3.5/45 lens in a Synchro-Compur shutter.

Among other front-end issues it seems to be suffering hardened grease. The focus is unbelievably stiff to turn. The other rings are only believably stiff. The apature works ok, but the shutter is playing weird games. It cocks, then half-closes on its own. It doesn't respond when the shutter release is pressed, and doesn't release on the auto setting.

Previous owner is a pro-photographer and advised that the camera had never been apart to his knowledge - there are no witness marks so he could well be right.

I've watched through Mac's fantastic flckr album of a teardown, but his lens is the bigger brother to mine, so I am a little leery about following it to the letter.

I have been able to get the front ring off to start working my way in. But nothing is moving in there...

Or should I just pour gallons of isopropyl alcohol into every crevice and furiously work everything to free it up?

Heat is your friend here. Put the camera near to a heat source, like a lamp with an incandescent light bulb. That will soften the geese up enough for you to work it out. Heat, and have your toothpicks or dental picks ready.

 

[johnf04]

Flushing the whole thing with solvent (I would use naptha rather than an alcohol) is just going to wash the old lubricants into the shutter and diaphragm. To do the job properly, the shutter should be dismantled, cleaned, and lubricated. Chris Sherlock has a youtube channel of videos of Retina repairs - Agfa used the same types of shutters as Kodak.

 

[Ashton]

Heat is your friend here.

Excellent. The slow cooker on low would seem ideal.

 

[Ashton]

yup - thats working. The focus ring is still stiff but is now at least moving. The shutter is now behaving itself although seems a bit slow especially at the 1/4, 1/2, 1s settings. I'll leave it to stew a bit longer to soak the heat right in.

Is there any documentation of the process to strip this lens and shutter combination? Video, written, delivered on tablets of stone from the Agfa factory - anything? Google has yet to turn up anything for me.

I got to here. The front element is a single and can be got out without removing what seems to be the helix drive - a slightly conical brass component shown in this image. The retainer ring for the next element(s) can be seen behind this cone.

 

[Greyscale]

yup - thats working. The focus ring is still stiff but is now at least moving. I'll leave it to stew a bit longer to soak the heat right in.

Is there any documentation of the process to strip this lens and shutter combination? Video, written, delivered on tablets of stone from the Agfa factory - anything? Google has yet to turn up anything for me.

http://feuerbacher.net/photo/repair/AgfaSuperSilette/AgfaSuperSilette.html

 

[Ashton]

^ yeah seen that one. Its the Apotar lens, not the Solinar on mine. Thanks for the direction though!

 

[seany65]

@Ashton: That's not a weird early version, I think it's the last version before they changed the shape to the horrible brick shape in 1960.

 

[farlymac]

@Ashton: That's not a weird early version, I think it's the last version before they changed the shape to the horrible brick shape in 1960.

The camera was made in three lens versions: Apotar 3 element; Solinar 4 element; and Solagon 6 element.


The Bayer grease that solidifies over the years into a glue is best softened with heat, then removed in an alcohol soak, sometimes for days.


Heating the whole camera to loosen things up is only a temporary solution, but at least you now know the shutter is not broken. But it will all seize up again a short while after cool down. Best to tear it down, and remove all old lubricants from the shutter. It's not supposed to have any lubricant on it, and what got there came from the focus helical. Use a good synthetic lube on the helical, and keep the shutter dry. Lube in the shutter will only cause failures down the line.


Link to my Ansco Super Memar repair with the Solagon 50/2.
https://flic.kr/s/aHsjCbMYma



Agfa/Ansco Cousins by P F McFarland, on Flickr


PF

 

[Ashton]

thanks to everyone for their replies - special mention to Greyscale (for emphasizing heat) and farlymac (for his great flickr feature on pulling this camera to a billion pieces).

Heat in two forms have freed this camera up considerably - to the point I'm going to run a film through it and see how it goes.

I used a slow cooker (as shown above) to heat the camera and can thoroughly recommend this method. Its a slow soaking heat to around 70 degrees C and did the business to start with. Later, I sat the little box of trouble on the top of our wood burner - hotter and faster. I would not recommend this for any plastic-bodied camera.

The focus ring now moves with some firm but not excessive resistance, and the slower speeds on the shutter have noticeably improved. I used some isopropyl, but I don't think it did a lot.

As an aside, the rangefinder spot is MUCH clearer in this camera than in either my QL19 or Minolta Himatic-11 and the coupled shutter and aperture system is simplicity itself . I think this is going to be a fun little box of light memories.

 

[Greyscale]

thanks to everyone for their replies - special mention to Greyscale (for emphasizing heat) and farlymac (for his great flickr feature on pulling this camera to a billion pieces).

As an aside, the rangefinder spot is MUCH clearer in this camera than in either my QL19 or Minolta Himatic-11 and the coupled shutter and aperture system is simplicity itself . I think this is going to be a fun little box of light memories.

I knew that Phil had documented a tear down of the Super Memar but could not find the album, I am glad that he poked his head in for the assist.

I have this camera in several flavors, and the Solagon equipped version is one of the finest fixed-lens rangefinders that I have ever used, the Voigtlander cameras with the Ultron might be the only ones that give the Solagon any real competition. But the Apotar is a fine triplet lens, and will produce fine results. And that viewfinder is wonderful.

 

[seany65]

How accurate (apart from the close-up displacement, that is) is the viewfinder on these cameras? I presume the one on the Solagon equipped is no different to the other cameras?

 

[farlymac]

How accurate (apart from the close-up displacement, that is) is the viewfinder on these cameras? I presume the one on the Solagon equipped is no different to the other cameras?

It's been a while since I used any of my Agfa/Ansco cameras, but the finders as I recall are fairly accurate for field of view. But then I usually tend to step back a little just in case.


PF

 

[seany65]

Thanks for the info, farlymac.