Jesse3Names
Established
Alright, I'm a fan. Do you know what they go for now-a-days and if there's any available outside of ebay? None are posted now.
oftheherd
Veteran
I scanned through kind of quickly so I may have missed soemthing that would invalidate what I would suggest. But if you are looking to us 50mm on a 6x6 to 6x9, and not as cumbersome to use as a 4x5 body, consider the Mamiya Super Press 23 or Universal. They actually have one back that has both formats, but uses a wind lever and frame windows rather than a crank. It would handle more like a Speed Graphic, but would be smaller, and I think from memory, lighter. Certainly easier to use with wide lenses.
Spanik
Well-known
Another option is the Fuji G690/GM670 with a 50mm/65mm/... Not a single camera with backs but if you stack a G690 and a GM670 it isn't much different from a Mamiya Press. The Fuji 50mm sadly isn't cheap or common.
The Mamiya Press has 6x9, 6x6 and 6x4.5 in the same back but make sure your back comes with the film gates and the viewfinder masks.
The Mamiya Press has 6x9, 6x6 and 6x4.5 in the same back but make sure your back comes with the film gates and the viewfinder masks.
Jesse3Names
Established
I called my favorite camera stores and managed to find three 4x5 options:
[1] Wista 4x5 folder
[2] Tachihara 4x5 folder
[3] Pressman (not sure which model) 4x5 folder
Any opinions on these? The Pressman has a spring back so I could use a Calumet 6x7 or 6x9 back without having to invest in a Graflok back. The Pressman is an all-metal, more capable 4x5 somewhat comparable to (but better than) any of the Speed/Crown Graphics. I read on another forum that a small lens board limits you to 90mm lenses as the widest you can install, but the guy at the camera store didn't mention this and said he had a 65mm f/5.6 lens I could use on it. Was this a simple oversight or can I really attach a 65mm f/5.6 as I expect?
EdSawyer
Established
thoughts
thoughts
A crown is your best bet. Cheap, available, always in demand, and functionally a great camera for the most part. The next step up is the Cambo Wide, for a dedicated wide(ish) landscape camera. Practical for lenses from 47-90+mm.
Frankly the travelwide, despite the hype, is severely limited in design, and really only for those who simply can't spend any money at all. Film and processing will swamp the cost of any of these cameras in the long run, so to me it's pointless to compromise on something like the travelwide when it's so limited and overall the camera cost is a minor factor in the long run. A cambo wide is almost as light as a travelwide and way more versatile and well-built.
thoughts
A crown is your best bet. Cheap, available, always in demand, and functionally a great camera for the most part. The next step up is the Cambo Wide, for a dedicated wide(ish) landscape camera. Practical for lenses from 47-90+mm.
Frankly the travelwide, despite the hype, is severely limited in design, and really only for those who simply can't spend any money at all. Film and processing will swamp the cost of any of these cameras in the long run, so to me it's pointless to compromise on something like the travelwide when it's so limited and overall the camera cost is a minor factor in the long run. A cambo wide is almost as light as a travelwide and way more versatile and well-built.
drew.saunders
Well-known
Which means that we come back to the fact that www.dofmaster.com changes depth of field when moving from one format to another given the above statement. Something must be up - either with the laws of physicsor the math behind this page.
DOFmaster and other calculators use circles of confusion (COC), which are based on an assumed enlargement (probably to about an 8x10" image, but it would be nice if they'd specify). A 24x36mm image enlarged by 8x is 192x288mm, which would fit nicely on an 8x12" (203x305mm) piece of paper. A 6x9cm, or 56x84mm negative needs only 3.4x enlargement to get to the same size. DOF decreases as you enlarge the negative, so the COC is different for different formats. That's where software like dofmaster comes in handy, but if you regularly enlarge your larger negatives quite a bit more than your smaller ones, then you'll need to adjust your COC value.
Jesse3Names
Established
So the Pressman is not in fact capable of lenses shorter than 90mm in focal length?
I have zero experience with 4x5 and don't really know how limiting the rigid body + choice between 2 lenses will be. I've never used movements let alone even the capability of a tilt/shift lens, but I think they would be useful for really capturing infinite DoF in certain scenes. The Crown Graphic is definitely a solid choice, but I do like the all-metal construction of the Pressman. I just need to know I can use the 65mm f/5.6 on the Pressman and not be limited to 90mm lenses and longer.
The shop I called, who did a fantastic job CLA-ing my Nikon S3 RF, had a Cambo Wide, but he said it would cost over $2k. I quickly told him my budget of $600ish. I work for peanuts as a Master's student and while I would love to spend $2k on a large format camera, the money's just not there and not coming in anytime soon.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Forget movements on 4x5 cameras with 90mm or wider lenses and conventional pleated bellows. They bind (too compressed) and barely allow focusing.
Cheers,
R.
Cheers,
R.
Jesse3Names
Established
Excellent point! See this is why I ask. If I'm going to shoot a 65mm lens as my only LF lens, then a Travelwide really isn't a bad idea in terms of usefulness.
Nokton48
Veteran
Larger format I find requires a tripod and long exposures, so I'm quite content with my Sinar Normas. Here is one, with 47mm F8 Schneider Super Angulon, on a Sinar Norma recessed board, with bag bellows. The front and rear standards can be brought close enough to touch each other. This will do 4x5", 6x9cm, 6x7, or 6x6 quite easily. Movements are important to me, this one will do any of them, regardless of configuration.
Attachments
jbielikowski
Jan Bielikowski
And the only one if you want cheap, portable 4x5. Cameras like Graflex need a tripod, forget about light and fast shooting.
Texsport
Well-known
I own all the Fujica 670/680/690 lenses and the 50mm on 6X9 is really not a preferred landscape lens. It's the equivalent of 21* on 35mm, and when used for landscapes, details in the distance tend to wash out. It's best used for interior and close quarters shots. (vertical too wide with 50mm on 6X9).
The 65mm is about equal to 28* and is the preferred wide landscape lens.
These cameras and lenses are much less expensive than most of the MF options being discussed here.
When I need to go wider than 65mm on 6X9, I prefer X12 or 6X17 to control the vertical field of view.
Texsport
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Not really. Remember that these were the standard US press camera in the 1940s or even 1950s. For more recent hand-held 4x5 shots see http://www.rogerandfrances.com/sgallery/g sepia 2.html
Not great art, but they show it can be done.
Cheers,
R.
thegman
Veteran
With 400 speed film at f/16, sunny 16 says you can shoot in broad daylight at 1/400 (or 1/500 more likely), plenty fast enough for handheld I think. I used a Fotoman 4x5 handheld, it's hard convenient, but it works.
jbielikowski
Jan Bielikowski
Oh of course, I've been using Crown Graphic for some time (and Weegee is my hero) but still I think those cameras need a tripod for a proper and convenient use.
Nokton48
Veteran
So do I. I have large format 4x5" cameras that I can handhold (see my avatar) but I never seem to use them that way.
Jesse3Names
Established
I probably won't be shooting handheld, so even though it can be done it's not really a factor in my deciding which camera is best for me. So I guess I'm down to the Pressman or Crown Graphic. If the Pressman can run <90mm lenses, I'll probably go with that, as it's all-metal and apparently built better with better movements than the Crown Graphic. I will be buying any camera sight-unseen and no one locally has any 4x5 I can play with, so it'll just be diving in head first with no matter what I choose.
jbielikowski
Jan Bielikowski
If you wont shoot handheld and will shoot wide lenses (and wont use normal lens that Press cameras come with) you can go cheap and light (but not in a compact form) with Toyo View cameras (IRC the 45CX is very light cause its made of plastic). It cost around 150-200$ and you can get one with "bag" instead of bellows for wide angle lenses.
hamradio
Well-known
The rear cell of the 65/5.6 is probably far too large to fit through the front standard of the Busch Pressman D, which has a fairly small opening. You could always try and see, however. I see no reason why the Angulon 65/6.8 wouldn't fit, but that would only cover 6x9 (as far as I know).
If you're just looking for wide 6x9 on the cheap(er), why not get a Travelwide 65, appropriate lens, and a Graflex 6x9 rollfilm back for 4x5? Looking at mine, even though its designed to fit a Graflok back, I am finding no reason it wouldn't slide into the spring back of the Travelwide.
Jesse3Names
Established
My understanding is they make one Travelwide body and they are soon to come out with a conversion kit to run the 65mm lenses. According to this, the Travelwide 65mm lens adapter system will be fixed-focus. My question is, between the 90mm with focus and 65mm without focus, will I ever really notice a difference? How much DoF do you really get on a 90mm f/6.8? (Whatever it is, it'll be even less if I use a 90mm f/8 instead). I guess it's only really noticeable on images focused down to its bottom end of 2 ft to the subject. The 65mm f/8 lens on the converted Travelwide must be at hyper-focal distance. So even if you get really close to something, the background will still likely be in focus; kind of a "duh" statement, as that's the definition of hyper-focal distance, but anyways... Am I right with my thinking here? I assume the conversion kit to run 65mm lenses will be semi-permanent... i.e. not convenient to swap back to a focusing 90/6.8 or 90/8 in the field.