dcsang
Canadian & Not A Dentist
At that point the turnaround time becomes excessive, Dave.
hehe.. true enough - infinite some would say.
I'm just curious because I've oft wondered this any number of times - all these people are getting older and I don't know if they have the wherewithal to take on "apprentices" or if anyone else younger is willing to (or feels compelled to) do the type of work they do. Not just Don but Sherry, Youxin, Gerry, etc. etc.
None of them, as much as we praise them, are immortal.
Cheers,
Dave
lewis44
Well-known
The last time I sent Don work he quoted 3 weeks. I got it back in a month. Shipping took 4 days, so he was right on time in my book. Also, I emailed him yesterday and the reply was in my inbox this morning.
Once the time ran about 1 month longer than expected, but he had to locate a hard to find part.
I have no complaints.
For an easy job and quick turnaround, Use Youxin Yee. Good job, fast turnaround.
Once the time ran about 1 month longer than expected, but he had to locate a hard to find part.
I have no complaints.
For an easy job and quick turnaround, Use Youxin Yee. Good job, fast turnaround.
ferider
Veteran
Don and Sherry are great of course, in particular for special tasks. I've used both. The last work that Sherry did for me was completely overhauling my dad's SL. Their backlog seems to have increased dramatically since digital Leicas became available (focus shift, etc ).
I just wanted to note that there are other great certified Leica technicians. For instance, I've used Steve's several times, M6 finder upgrade, Fungus cleaning, etc.; they just now finished an F3HP for me. Immediate response by email, great work, reasonable prices, predictable TAT (usually 2 weeks; http://www.stevecamera.com).
Roland.
).I just wanted to note that there are other great certified Leica technicians. For instance, I've used Steve's several times, M6 finder upgrade, Fungus cleaning, etc.; they just now finished an F3HP for me. Immediate response by email, great work, reasonable prices, predictable TAT (usually 2 weeks; http://www.stevecamera.com).
Roland.
Mark C
Well-known
I think you'll need a rigid that matches the focal length of the DR (DR's are all the same FL I believe).
To stay on topic I'll say that I'm glad to learn more about DAG and may end up sending some things to him.
I've always dealt with Sherry Krauter and have no complaints. She's been great to deal with and tells it like she sees it. I regularly retell her somewhat bawdy description of the quality difference between an M4-2 and an M4-P.
She can be hard to reach too, though I now know when to call to her. These are one person shops and every hour they spend on email is an hour farther behind they get in repairs. It can certainly be frustrating, but I personally accept that compromise. People who are not satisfied with that way of doing business should probably find someone that better meets their needs.
JMQ
Well-known
'Butcher' is an extreme word in this case.
ok, Robert I got carried away....I too have a much adored DR that I'd love to use on my M9, but I cannot bring myself to modify.
BTW, your 35 Lux Asph has become a favorite lens on my M9.
goamules
Well-known
I just tried my first CLA and shutter curtain at DAG, after being disappointed in the quality of TWO other repair persons mentioned in these threads often. I knew he was busy, and that I was taking a chance of waiting months, so before I sent it I asked what his current turnaround for MY job would be. He quoted 3 weeks.
Three weeks later, he just emailed me the tracking number of it being shipped back.
How did I handle it? I just asked up front, in a short, concise email the estimated time and cost. Once week later I made my only phonecall (because I know people respond better to a quick call). I just "checked in, making sure you got the camera..." to which he responded it was ready to be worked on. I didn't bother him again in email or call.
When I started working once in a busy office I was getting several calls and emails every half hour. My department (technical training) was very in demand. It got to the point were I was getting NOTHING done, because as soon as I started one project, the phone or email would ping with an "important question." Finally, I started setting aside only one time of day to read and answer emails and phone. The rest of the time they had to go into the queue. For DAG, I'm sure he figures answering an email within 1 or 2 days is fine...and it is. For me, he answered within a couple hours always though.
I Recommend DAG.
Three weeks later, he just emailed me the tracking number of it being shipped back.
How did I handle it? I just asked up front, in a short, concise email the estimated time and cost. Once week later I made my only phonecall (because I know people respond better to a quick call). I just "checked in, making sure you got the camera..." to which he responded it was ready to be worked on. I didn't bother him again in email or call.
When I started working once in a busy office I was getting several calls and emails every half hour. My department (technical training) was very in demand. It got to the point were I was getting NOTHING done, because as soon as I started one project, the phone or email would ping with an "important question." Finally, I started setting aside only one time of day to read and answer emails and phone. The rest of the time they had to go into the queue. For DAG, I'm sure he figures answering an email within 1 or 2 days is fine...and it is. For me, he answered within a couple hours always though.
I Recommend DAG.
goamules
Well-known
On the topic of "who will repair Leicas in the future?" You've got to realize the paradox we are all posting about. We want a really fast turnaround, really cheap, on exotic, complex machines that are no longer made. We balk if a CLA costs more than $100, or if we don't get a camera repaired and back in 1 week.
I'm sure some would love to do this work one day. But if you repaired one camera a day, on average (there will be weeks with no work at all), would you be happy making $500 a week?
The internet has spoiled everyone to think everything should be fast and cheap (or free). There are three components of a business; cost, schedule, and quality of service. And no one works for free. If the quality and cost are really good, perhaps schedule has to be variable. But not many would be willing to take on the camera service business if they could only make poverty wages.
I'm sure some would love to do this work one day. But if you repaired one camera a day, on average (there will be weeks with no work at all), would you be happy making $500 a week?
The internet has spoiled everyone to think everything should be fast and cheap (or free). There are three components of a business; cost, schedule, and quality of service. And no one works for free. If the quality and cost are really good, perhaps schedule has to be variable. But not many would be willing to take on the camera service business if they could only make poverty wages.
thegman
Veteran
I quite agree.
ferider
Veteran
I think it's actually funny that people expect to pay less to a good camera technician (in hourly rate), than what they would pay, say, a plumber. In parallel, the same customers have no regrets when spending thousands of dollars on the equipment that is being CLA'ed
dcsang
Canadian & Not A Dentist
I think it's actually funny that people expect to pay less to a good camera technician (in hourly rate), than what they would pay, say, a plumber. In parallel, the same customers have no regrets when spending thousands of dollars on the equipment that is being CLA'ed
Same mindset when it comes to paying for a "professional" photographer. Why bother when "my cousin has a digital camera and he'll just give me the photos" is usually the response when people can't see the value of employing a professional.
Those that don't see the value likely never will . . . . . until they are bitten in the butt because they didn't hire a professional (regardless of the profession) in the first place
Cheers,
Dave
goamules
Well-known
I think it's actually funny that people expect to pay less to a good camera technician (in hourly rate), than what they would pay, say, a plumber. In parallel, the same customers have no regrets when spending thousands of dollars on the equipment that is being CLA'ed
Probably the problem is how cheap old film cameras are now. People don't mind paying $500 to get their Lexus or Toyota tuned up, because it cost $30,000 and five hundred is just a fraction of that. When you buy a Canon IVSB or Leica IIIc for $200-$300, it just feels "wrong" when you have to spend $200 to get it overhauled.
We need to remember that in the 50s when these cameras were made, they cost the equivalent of a couple thousand dollars. It was a major purchase for the rich. The only reason they're cheap now is 10's of thousands were made, and hardly anyone shoots film today. But the amount of work to manufacture a Leica III today would, again, be thousands of dollars. I hate paying a couple hundred for ANY repair too, be it a car, plumbing, or camera. But it has to be done sometimes and I respect the people that can do the work.
True, although speaking of car repairs, it's ridiculous what the going rates are nowadays.
I got a quote for new front pads and rotors, and ended up saying 'screw that' and bought the parts myself. An hour later it was done, and that included the time it took to locate all the right sized tools (I recently moved.) Savings: over $500.
I got a quote for new front pads and rotors, and ended up saying 'screw that' and bought the parts myself. An hour later it was done, and that included the time it took to locate all the right sized tools (I recently moved.) Savings: over $500.
douglasf13
Well-known
I agree. Don told me that the lenses would take two weeks, and, since he confirmed that he'd be finishing the lenses during that second week, I've yet to hear from him 5 weeks later. I'm trying not to pester him, as I've only sent two emails, one of which told him that I was at least expecting to receive the lenses to use at my wife's birthday party (which has now passed,) and then I sent another one after responding to this thread yesterday. He hasn't answered the phone, either, so I have no idea what is going on.
I understand that he's busy and does great work, but not meeting deadlines AND not having open communication about it is absurd. I had read so many good things about DAG, but I somehow missed these threads about his customer service, unfortunately. When I ordered a part from him in the past, it arrived quickly.
sailor
Well-known
It is perfectly possible to get excellent service and a quick turnaround. Let me tell you about my experience with Sover Wong who is the go to repairer for Nikon F2s. I contacted him and we had a discussion about which of his services would be required for my camera. He suggested the middle priced one which I was happy to agree to. Throughout the whole process he sent me emails on a regular basis explaining what he had found and what he was going to do about it. These emails contained photographs of what he was talking about, with close ups of particular faults. The whole process took a week from start to finish and when the camera was returned there was also a disk enclosed with all the photographs on it and and a printout of the shutter speed test for the camera. Also enclosed was a 1 yen coin (I think) which is a good fit for the battery cover. The camera is like new and I'm absolutely delighted. The total cost of servicing the camera and photomic head including parts and a new focussing screen and a 12 month warranty was just shy of £250. I consider that to be brilliant value. Shown below is one of the pictures he sent me.
My Nikon F2 by Elmer Duck, on Flickr
My Nikon F2 by Elmer Duck, on Flickr
venchka
Veteran
Agreed. 51.9mm according to the hand engraved numbers & initials on my D.R. Summicron optical cell. In my first post I said that shimming/making it work may be required.
Unconfirmed by me, but many folks say that Sherry seems to be easier to reach later in the day. I own an M5 that got the full, 110% Sherry Golden Touch full 2-lug to 3-lug specs. treatment before I bought it. The best of all the cameras that I have ever owned.
Wayne
__--
Well-known
Here we go: (1) I would have to locate a rigid Summicron with a properly functioning focusing mount (and trashed optics to make it cheap), (2) determine that the focusing mount is indeed focusing properly, and (3) if the rigid Summicron is not exactly 51.9mm (as as is likely), I would need to arrange for shimming for proper focus calibration. All three steps would be virtually impossible to achieve in Bangkok at reasonable cost or in a reasonable time frame. The alternative would be to buy a really good rigid Summicron and sell my DR Summicron, but I am definitely not into buying and selling photo equipment, which I consider a great PITA. For me, living in Bangkok where there aren't the market nor the repair facilities that are available in the US for this, the solution of milling down the cam on my excellent DR Summicron, despite the fact that it is a gem, is more practical, particulalrly as this solution would also have the benefit of being usable for the close focusing range, without using the goggles, on the new Leica M by using the EVF.
Now, coming back to the subject of this thread, it seems to me problematic, the next time I go to the States for three weeks, to send this lens to DAG to get this done in the light of the experience that douglasf13 reports.
—Mitch/Bangkok
Bangkok Hysteria (download link for book project)
venchka
Veteran
I apologize. I too share your sentiments about the Dual Range Summicron. I would never want to loose or give up my mint copy.
You may want to communicate with Focal Point as well. Explain what needs to be done, specify your time requirements, and find out if they can help.
http://www.focalpointlens.com/fp_services.html#Top
A similar approach could be done with Sherry Krauter and Youxin Ye.
Good luck & Bon voyage!
Wayne
__--
Well-known
Thanks, Wayne. Good information.
enasniearth
Well-known
Camera repair
Camera repair
There are not many quality repair persons left for the old clockwork type mechanical cameras ,
If you want a great job , perhaps patience in this have it now world is a little necessary . After all , your newly serviced camera is good for another 25 years .
I find the most talented individuals are not people persons. Or have an odd streak I understand .
In this case you actually know who is tearing your camera apart , not well our technician thinks , or our man has found a problem , or we have determined that your camera is only suitable as a source of parts .
In the last 38 of my 58 I have heard it all , well perhaps there are some surprises left , I hope so .
Camera repair
There are not many quality repair persons left for the old clockwork type mechanical cameras ,
If you want a great job , perhaps patience in this have it now world is a little necessary . After all , your newly serviced camera is good for another 25 years .
I find the most talented individuals are not people persons. Or have an odd streak I understand .
In this case you actually know who is tearing your camera apart , not well our technician thinks , or our man has found a problem , or we have determined that your camera is only suitable as a source of parts .
In the last 38 of my 58 I have heard it all , well perhaps there are some surprises left , I hope so .
Yep; Sometimes it just takes the right expert. On two occasions I had one of Seattle's best camera techs tell me a camera was junk, unrepairable. One was my wife's well-battered Pentax LX, and it later went to Pentax expert Eric Hendrickson. The other was a Fuji GS645S which sat for a couple years until I discovered Frank Marshman. Both turned out running like new.
OTOH, until he retired, I had a local guy here in central WA who was fully capable of a good CLA on my M2. I suspect that if these techs go to camera repair school, a required part of the curriculum has to be Leica work!