fuwen
Well-known
Nice shots, Jaapv.
I still like films very much. I do not develope photos myself and only enjoy taking photos.
I do have a Pentax DL DSLR, but only be used for the not so important things like taking photos for kids assignments, some equipment shots for posting on internet. The DL has been with me almost a year, shutter counts < 400.
The digital quality is there, but I know it is the film character that I want.
Also film cameras have long battery life, typically from 6 months (my RTS III) to 1 year (my Rollei 35 RF).
I still like films very much. I do not develope photos myself and only enjoy taking photos.
I do have a Pentax DL DSLR, but only be used for the not so important things like taking photos for kids assignments, some equipment shots for posting on internet. The DL has been with me almost a year, shutter counts < 400.
The digital quality is there, but I know it is the film character that I want.
Also film cameras have long battery life, typically from 6 months (my RTS III) to 1 year (my Rollei 35 RF).
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Bike Tourist
Well-known
My two VC Bessas with three lenses fit into a very small shoulder bag.
My Canon 5D with three zooms and one prime barely fit into a huge backpack.
If I ever give up the idea of selling stock and offsetting my photo expenses (for reasons stated elswhere, film-based images do not get many acceptances on stock sites) I will return to 100% film.
If it still exists.
My Canon 5D with three zooms and one prime barely fit into a huge backpack.
If I ever give up the idea of selling stock and offsetting my photo expenses (for reasons stated elswhere, film-based images do not get many acceptances on stock sites) I will return to 100% film.
If it still exists.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
fuwen said:
I still like film very much as well, but it is turning into a kind of nostalgic love I fear.I dont know if my last half-dozen rolls of Kodachrome in the fridge will ever be used. (unless Shintaro ever returns my M3, a dwindling possibility :bang: :bang: :bang
That first shot, although very clean and (I think) striking, is still clearly a non-film one, but that second one, well it makes me wonder what film would give this dynamic range and clearness of detail, whilst still preserving atmosphere - at ISO 1600.......
john_nyc
Established
Like a few others on this thread, I sold my DSLR kit and put the proceeds into film RF gear.
About 3 years ago I decided to take the digital plunge and sold my M6TTL outfit and bought a Sigma SD-10 outfit (because of the unique Foveon sensor).
Last year I decided that because of the size/weight of the Sigma body/lenses and poor available light performance that I'd go back to film RF's.
Now I've spent the last 6 months re-assembling a Leica outfit (based on M7 this time) and I'm almost back to where I was before I "went digital".
I don't regret having made this cyclical transition. I like to tell myself that the money I saved by not having to process/contact the massive amount of exposures I took digitally balanced the money I lost on the sales/purchases of gear. I especially tell my wife that
That said, I'm much happier shooting film and I'm happier with the results I'm getting. The smaller body/lenses also enables me to carry my primary camera with me every day, something I'd never have contemplated with the Buick-sized DSLR.
Also like some others on this thread, I have a digital P&S (Panasonic LX-2) that's come in handy for practical things like photos of items I've auctioned.
John
About 3 years ago I decided to take the digital plunge and sold my M6TTL outfit and bought a Sigma SD-10 outfit (because of the unique Foveon sensor).
Last year I decided that because of the size/weight of the Sigma body/lenses and poor available light performance that I'd go back to film RF's.
Now I've spent the last 6 months re-assembling a Leica outfit (based on M7 this time) and I'm almost back to where I was before I "went digital".
I don't regret having made this cyclical transition. I like to tell myself that the money I saved by not having to process/contact the massive amount of exposures I took digitally balanced the money I lost on the sales/purchases of gear. I especially tell my wife that
That said, I'm much happier shooting film and I'm happier with the results I'm getting. The smaller body/lenses also enables me to carry my primary camera with me every day, something I'd never have contemplated with the Buick-sized DSLR.
Also like some others on this thread, I have a digital P&S (Panasonic LX-2) that's come in handy for practical things like photos of items I've auctioned.
John
willie_901
Veteran
jaapv,
In the lower photo, what's with the horizontal banding from the pole light in the distance? Was this taken with an updated M8? Also, did you use an older lens? I noticed cyan fringing around all the bright lights and I'm wondering if this is chromatic abberation.
I've invested so much time reading about the M8 and looking at M8 images, my curiosity compels me to ask.
Thanks,
willie
ps the exposure is perfect
In the lower photo, what's with the horizontal banding from the pole light in the distance? Was this taken with an updated M8? Also, did you use an older lens? I noticed cyan fringing around all the bright lights and I'm wondering if this is chromatic abberation.
I've invested so much time reading about the M8 and looking at M8 images, my curiosity compels me to ask.
Thanks,
willie
ps the exposure is perfect
Well, instead of a few new CF cards for this trip, I went to Adorama and about 40 rolls of film Agfa APX 100 has been on sale by the wayBryan
There is nothing in digital that compares with the feeling of watching a great print come up in the developer.
I think it would be great to go back to just film. I'm on my fifth generation of digital and use it everyday for work. Although it's a great camera, I enjoy shooting film more. I'm sure the next up-date is just around the corner.
I realize that my clients wouldn't be interested in film so I'm trying to find a new outlet for my work so I can shoot the way I want.
I live in a big enough city that I think I can make a living just shooting b&w portraits.
Right now I shoot digital and 8x10 black and white only... for those shooters who were considering getting a large format I think you've over complicated the whole thing. You don't need all the processing tanks and stuff just use a tray like most others are doing. All you need is a camera, one lens and a couple holders.... you can shoot for years with just that. Now you wouldn't be going out and blasting 30-40 shots in a day.... maybe 2-4 frames in a whole day... but they tend to be more thought out and executed. It's also cheaper to shoot 8x10 and make contact prints than 4x5 if you have to buy a new enlarger. With 8x10 contacts all you need is a lightbulb.
Regarding the Shen-Hao 4x5's that people were discussing, I sell them at my retail outlet... they don't sell that well, because people consider them an entry level camera. Most people shooting LF are looking for something a step or two up.
Just my two cents worth.
Rob Skeoch
www.bigcameraworkshops.com
I think it would be great to go back to just film. I'm on my fifth generation of digital and use it everyday for work. Although it's a great camera, I enjoy shooting film more. I'm sure the next up-date is just around the corner.
I realize that my clients wouldn't be interested in film so I'm trying to find a new outlet for my work so I can shoot the way I want.
I live in a big enough city that I think I can make a living just shooting b&w portraits.
Right now I shoot digital and 8x10 black and white only... for those shooters who were considering getting a large format I think you've over complicated the whole thing. You don't need all the processing tanks and stuff just use a tray like most others are doing. All you need is a camera, one lens and a couple holders.... you can shoot for years with just that. Now you wouldn't be going out and blasting 30-40 shots in a day.... maybe 2-4 frames in a whole day... but they tend to be more thought out and executed. It's also cheaper to shoot 8x10 and make contact prints than 4x5 if you have to buy a new enlarger. With 8x10 contacts all you need is a lightbulb.
Regarding the Shen-Hao 4x5's that people were discussing, I sell them at my retail outlet... they don't sell that well, because people consider them an entry level camera. Most people shooting LF are looking for something a step or two up.
Just my two cents worth.
Rob Skeoch
www.bigcameraworkshops.com
charjohncarter
Veteran
I won't sell my two DSLRs or my digital P&S, but I sure don't enjoy them like I thought I would. And I rarely use them except for snapshots. Nostalgie, you have come to the right place because this forum, me excluded, has some very enjoyable and knowledgeable people on it. You will learn a lot, as I have, and they know film.
Gid
Well-known
I've just one film camera left - my Canon F1. It will most likely only get used on high days and holidays. I just don't have time at the moment to process and scan. I do prefer the whole film process and will probably come back to it in a few years time when I retire, but only if I can get a darkroom set up and produce wet prints. At the moment I print digitally, even from film scans, so in some respects focusing (excuse pun) on digital is just cutting out the middle man, mostly with better results.
T
tedwhite
Guest
Rob Skeoch:
I read your post with interest. You've got some good ideas there, and you're quite right about 8X10 b/w negatives. All you need is a contact printer and a light bulb. And when you make a direct contact print from an 8X10 neg it is truly stunning in terms of sharpness, grayscale, and exquisite detail.
And, if you've got a reasonably good flatbed scanner with SilverFast SE or VueScan, and a printer like an Epson R2400 with three black ink tanks, you can make a 13X19" print that will leave people agape.
Probably an 8X10 field camera isn't that much more of a chore to schlep around than a 4X5.
Having said all of this, what is YOUR take on the Shen-Hao? I know people would shun them as "entry level," but isn't it the lens that matters?
Ted
I read your post with interest. You've got some good ideas there, and you're quite right about 8X10 b/w negatives. All you need is a contact printer and a light bulb. And when you make a direct contact print from an 8X10 neg it is truly stunning in terms of sharpness, grayscale, and exquisite detail.
And, if you've got a reasonably good flatbed scanner with SilverFast SE or VueScan, and a printer like an Epson R2400 with three black ink tanks, you can make a 13X19" print that will leave people agape.
Probably an 8X10 field camera isn't that much more of a chore to schlep around than a 4X5.
Having said all of this, what is YOUR take on the Shen-Hao? I know people would shun them as "entry level," but isn't it the lens that matters?
Ted
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
willie_901 said:
It was with my first M8, before updating and with firmware 1.06, hence the banding which, to be fair, is not half as bad as internet fenzy made out, but still existed. The cyan fringing is maybe sensor blooming, which the M8 exhibits in a much milder fashion than for instance Canon sensors- but still a fact of life in digital photography, much less disturbing imo than the effect of blown-out highlights on film. We must not fall into the trap of expecting the impossible because the image is captured digitally. We have, after all, learnt not to expect that of film. The lens was the Summilux 75.
However, after upgrade, it looks like this: Summicron 35 asph, 640 ISO (=800 effective) No photoshop, just straight conversion in C1.
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Hi Ted,
Well yea it is the lens that matters... sort of.
If you go out with a large camera and shoot 4 frames it will take you most of the morning. Now you might come back with four photographs or maybe nothing.
Once you get in the grove of shooting LF you find the process of shooting rather therapeutic, some people call it the Zen of LF but lets not go there. So although it's the lens that takes the picture it's the shooting process that gets you there... and that process might be more enjoyable with the higher quality cameras.
The Shen-Hao 4x5 is a well made basic camera, with plastic knobs. In use, I find that I have to fight the camera design a bit. In comparison if you use an Ebony brand camera it's a better design and shooting flows better. Now the camera is at a totally different price point so we're not really comparing apples to apples.
Yes you could take the same picture with both cameras and the same lens, but the experience of shooting is just that much nicer with some of the nicer gear. Now lets say you're having a lousy time shooting and are ready to pack it in for the day. If you've been fighting the gear all day you're done, but if the gear's been working smoothly and that part of the days gone well, maybe you'll hang around for a while and see what the light does.
So you have to ask yourself is it only the final image that matters..... or am I looking for the most positive shooting experience and the fact that I get a photo, or even a good photo is a bonus.... and the fact that it's on a large piece of film is just another bonus.
It's the same when using a rangefinder over a slr or dslr, yea sure the lenses are sharper, but only a photographer would care.... if you're going out to have a day of shooting you want to have a great day, and a great photo is a bonus. It's the positive feeling that comes with taking a great shot, using a great camera, the click of the shutter and the therapeutic winding to the next frame.
For most of us the pictures don't really matter, we're the only ones who see them, our spouses are bored with it all, so we end up showing them to other photographers, even strangers for a bit of appreciation.
-Rob Skeoch
www.bigcameraworkshops.com
Well yea it is the lens that matters... sort of.
If you go out with a large camera and shoot 4 frames it will take you most of the morning. Now you might come back with four photographs or maybe nothing.
Once you get in the grove of shooting LF you find the process of shooting rather therapeutic, some people call it the Zen of LF but lets not go there. So although it's the lens that takes the picture it's the shooting process that gets you there... and that process might be more enjoyable with the higher quality cameras.
The Shen-Hao 4x5 is a well made basic camera, with plastic knobs. In use, I find that I have to fight the camera design a bit. In comparison if you use an Ebony brand camera it's a better design and shooting flows better. Now the camera is at a totally different price point so we're not really comparing apples to apples.
Yes you could take the same picture with both cameras and the same lens, but the experience of shooting is just that much nicer with some of the nicer gear. Now lets say you're having a lousy time shooting and are ready to pack it in for the day. If you've been fighting the gear all day you're done, but if the gear's been working smoothly and that part of the days gone well, maybe you'll hang around for a while and see what the light does.
So you have to ask yourself is it only the final image that matters..... or am I looking for the most positive shooting experience and the fact that I get a photo, or even a good photo is a bonus.... and the fact that it's on a large piece of film is just another bonus.
It's the same when using a rangefinder over a slr or dslr, yea sure the lenses are sharper, but only a photographer would care.... if you're going out to have a day of shooting you want to have a great day, and a great photo is a bonus. It's the positive feeling that comes with taking a great shot, using a great camera, the click of the shutter and the therapeutic winding to the next frame.
For most of us the pictures don't really matter, we're the only ones who see them, our spouses are bored with it all, so we end up showing them to other photographers, even strangers for a bit of appreciation.
-Rob Skeoch
www.bigcameraworkshops.com
willie_901
Veteran
jaapv said:
Turtle
Veteran
I have digital cams but dont enjoy them much. only when I owned and used them did I realise how different the whole experience was. in a word: souless. In two words: Souless, distracted.
S
Socke
Guest
Yep, soulless
S
Socke
Guest
And even more so
Jeremy Z
Well-known
Rob, you said something earlier that made me wonder. You said that you shoot digital because your customers want it, or you think they do.
For the heck of it, why not shoot some B&W film along with the digital? Something simple, just a representation. Make a large print or two, and ask them which they prefer?
You could offer a higher-priced option of film; sell it as an upgrade. When asked why one would want that, you'd explain the wider dynamic range and better enlargements possible at this point in time.
You'll never know until you try. It might have to be on your dime at first, but wouldn't have to cost much. (time being the main thing)
For the heck of it, why not shoot some B&W film along with the digital? Something simple, just a representation. Make a large print or two, and ask them which they prefer?
You could offer a higher-priced option of film; sell it as an upgrade. When asked why one would want that, you'd explain the wider dynamic range and better enlargements possible at this point in time.
You'll never know until you try. It might have to be on your dime at first, but wouldn't have to cost much. (time being the main thing)
Hi Jeremy,
Right now I make my living shooting pro-sports... there's no going back to b&w for NFL, NHL and baseball. Oh you might sell a shot or two a year, but Sports Illustrated is looking for colour only.
I'm looking for a whole new client base... giving up the sports gig and shooting something else all together.... it will have to be a long term conversion.
-Rob Skeoch
Right now I make my living shooting pro-sports... there's no going back to b&w for NFL, NHL and baseball. Oh you might sell a shot or two a year, but Sports Illustrated is looking for colour only.
I'm looking for a whole new client base... giving up the sports gig and shooting something else all together.... it will have to be a long term conversion.
-Rob Skeoch