cmogi10
Bodhisattva
Im kind of curious, I see a lot of problems with this expensive camera. I was wondering how many m7 owners spend time here and how the feel about their investment. Are they happy? Regret? Wish they went with an older Leica?
I've been looking at M7's and M6's because the market seems pretty buyer friendly, (Although Leica glass seems to be going up)
Just wanted to hear personal stories, the good, the bad, the ugly...
Thanks!
I've been looking at M7's and M6's because the market seems pretty buyer friendly, (Although Leica glass seems to be going up)
Just wanted to hear personal stories, the good, the bad, the ugly...
Thanks!
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whitecat
Lone Range(find)er
Go for the Zeiss body instead.
cmogi10
Bodhisattva
whitecat said:
I will certainly look into it.
lewis44
Well-known
Love my M7. Have had no problems or complaints. When everything else is a distant memory, I'll still be able to get it repaired.................Just like the other M Cameras from Leica.
tajart
ancien
mmmmmmmmm7
mmmmmmmmm7
yep, love my m7 too. it is my most used camera. only "problem" it has is the older flare prone finder.
dag rebuilt my m6 and put the flare free finder in it, which is real sweet, but i still use the m7 far more.
mmmmmmmmm7
yep, love my m7 too. it is my most used camera. only "problem" it has is the older flare prone finder.
dag rebuilt my m6 and put the flare free finder in it, which is real sweet, but i still use the m7 far more.
kshapero
South Florida Man
Since the M7's is so terrible, I'll take one off someone's hands, for Free!
peter_n
Veteran
I think that you hear far more about problems on the internet than about something that works properly. Maybe you've seen a "lot" of problems but it could well be just the tip of the iceberg. There was a thread over on the German Leica forum about this very subject and the overwhelming response was positive.cmogi10 said:
My personal experience is with two M7 bodies; an 0.85 mag and a 0.72 mag. So far, both have been trouble-free and I like the cameras very much. I bought both at very good prices so I think the investment worthwhile. Given that, if I were buying now I would take a serious look at the Zeiss Ikon and would probably buy those cameras instead. I have no interest in older cameras. Older lenses - yes, but I like modern bodies with AE as an optional mode.
sepiareverb
genius and moron
I've got 2 M7's, one .72 and one .58, an M5 and an M6. While the M5 has a lot of appeal, and is certainly a joy to shoot the M7's are my workhorses. When I'm out to shoot for the day they are always with me, the M5 often the third body.
Both of my M7's have the DX problem you'll often hear about- where the DX reader seems not to work right all the time, giving a dot in the vf when it shouldn't be there. Note that I've never had erroneous exposures while shooting despite the dot. The dot is more of an annoyance than anything else. I have started setting the ISO manually and haven't looked back. That such an expensive camera has this issue is an annoyance, but when the cameras are due for a CLA they will get this addressed. I have never had such a connection as I've had with this camera, and I've shot a lot of different bodies over the years. The M5 is a very close second, and has a great deal of appeal for me as it was the Leica I'd have gotten had I started with one. The M6 has much less appeal for me, I think a lot of that has to do with mine being such a beater, and that it was the last Leica body I got. It certainly seems like much less of a fine piece of equipment than the M7's, and the M5 has a totally different feel- old for sure, but with a precision and smoothness that I like very much.
I wouldn't hesitate in pointing anyone to the M7 if the option of Aperture Priority is something you are used to or would find helpful. If not, the MP certainly is a better option in my mind than the M6, but again I have some bias here due to my individual M6 having colored my judgement. I am not done with M's, I think a MP .72 and an M7 .85 are in my future-the M6 will go, and the M5 will stay.
Both of my M7's have the DX problem you'll often hear about- where the DX reader seems not to work right all the time, giving a dot in the vf when it shouldn't be there. Note that I've never had erroneous exposures while shooting despite the dot. The dot is more of an annoyance than anything else. I have started setting the ISO manually and haven't looked back. That such an expensive camera has this issue is an annoyance, but when the cameras are due for a CLA they will get this addressed. I have never had such a connection as I've had with this camera, and I've shot a lot of different bodies over the years. The M5 is a very close second, and has a great deal of appeal for me as it was the Leica I'd have gotten had I started with one. The M6 has much less appeal for me, I think a lot of that has to do with mine being such a beater, and that it was the last Leica body I got. It certainly seems like much less of a fine piece of equipment than the M7's, and the M5 has a totally different feel- old for sure, but with a precision and smoothness that I like very much.
I wouldn't hesitate in pointing anyone to the M7 if the option of Aperture Priority is something you are used to or would find helpful. If not, the MP certainly is a better option in my mind than the M6, but again I have some bias here due to my individual M6 having colored my judgement. I am not done with M's, I think a MP .72 and an M7 .85 are in my future-the M6 will go, and the M5 will stay.
cmogi10
Bodhisattva
peter_n said:
Hey, I never pretended to be an expert, I just never seem to hear people talking about the m7 except for a couple threads that popped up with some problems.
I was just curious and looking for more opinions, as I'm getting here.
Rob-F
Likes Leicas
I can't fault my M7 0.58. It's been entirely glitch-free. It does not have the flare-resistant finder, but with the .58 magnification that is not really a problem.
That said, I may sell it, just because I seem to have developed a desire for an R-D1; and I'd like the R-4 also. And I have six other M's, so if I kept the M7, that would just be too many Cameras! (How many boats can you water ski behind at the same time?)
That said, I may sell it, just because I seem to have developed a desire for an R-D1; and I'd like the R-4 also. And I have six other M's, so if I kept the M7, that would just be too many Cameras! (How many boats can you water ski behind at the same time?)
sepiareverb
genius and moron
Rob-F said:
That would depend on the skill of both the skiier and the pilots.
lencap
Established
Lots of emotion around the M7 - some love it, some hate it usually viewing the added automation as heresy. As always, you will ultimately be the judge.
I am very new to Leica and view it as a fine tool, but only a tool, not an icon. I love my professional carpenter hammer, but when I need a screwdriver the hammer won't do the job no matter how hard I may force it. Seems the same to me with the M7 - if you need/want automation it's the only tool that does the job, outside of the M8, which is another tool altogether.
So my decision became which of the current Leica tools best suits my needs? I didn't want a collector Leica, nor did I want an older design, so my choices were basically M6(including the .tll) M7, M8 and the MP.
Given those choices, I thought that FOR MY NEEDS, the M7 was the best tool. It has everything that the M6 and MP have with the added benefit (to me) of intelligent automation. Intelligent because I can use it or chose not to by just turning to the manual controls.
So far, and my experience is very limited, the M7 is the right tool. I have the 0.72 finder and I wear glasses. I see why some people may prefer a different finder because of glasses, but to me it is tolerable. I also favor 28mm over 35mm perspectives and for that the 0.72 is a bit better - in my opinion - because of the wider view that is provided.
The flare issue on early models may be the source of some owner complaints that you've read, but the fix is available if it is a problem for you - I suggest you try before upgrading. I have an early production M7 and I have had the rangefinder upgraded to the MP version, and have added the MP film advance lever. The upgrades were worthwhile, iin my opinion, but others may disagree. I can see why some users without the upgrades would possibly have some minor complaints with the camera, but my experience was that the flare issue was not always visible. It occurred in certain situations and with some wider angle focal lengths more often than with longer and more normal focal length. Since wider angle lenses are often considered standard on Leica cameras the flare issue may be more of an issue for you if you shoot wide angle often. If that is your issue, get the MP finder fix installed and life will be wonderful again.
The M7 is well balanced, shoots and feels just like the other M's, and to me has no significant downside. If you don't like the automation, don't use it. In terms of value, the M7 is selling for about half of the current list price in the used market. Compared to their original prices M6s actually sell for a bit more. I can't think of a single better value in all of photography than a well cared for used M7.
If the M7 seems to be for you, give it a try. If you don't like it, there is a ready and active used marketplace.
I am very new to Leica and view it as a fine tool, but only a tool, not an icon. I love my professional carpenter hammer, but when I need a screwdriver the hammer won't do the job no matter how hard I may force it. Seems the same to me with the M7 - if you need/want automation it's the only tool that does the job, outside of the M8, which is another tool altogether.
So my decision became which of the current Leica tools best suits my needs? I didn't want a collector Leica, nor did I want an older design, so my choices were basically M6(including the .tll) M7, M8 and the MP.
Given those choices, I thought that FOR MY NEEDS, the M7 was the best tool. It has everything that the M6 and MP have with the added benefit (to me) of intelligent automation. Intelligent because I can use it or chose not to by just turning to the manual controls.
So far, and my experience is very limited, the M7 is the right tool. I have the 0.72 finder and I wear glasses. I see why some people may prefer a different finder because of glasses, but to me it is tolerable. I also favor 28mm over 35mm perspectives and for that the 0.72 is a bit better - in my opinion - because of the wider view that is provided.
The flare issue on early models may be the source of some owner complaints that you've read, but the fix is available if it is a problem for you - I suggest you try before upgrading. I have an early production M7 and I have had the rangefinder upgraded to the MP version, and have added the MP film advance lever. The upgrades were worthwhile, iin my opinion, but others may disagree. I can see why some users without the upgrades would possibly have some minor complaints with the camera, but my experience was that the flare issue was not always visible. It occurred in certain situations and with some wider angle focal lengths more often than with longer and more normal focal length. Since wider angle lenses are often considered standard on Leica cameras the flare issue may be more of an issue for you if you shoot wide angle often. If that is your issue, get the MP finder fix installed and life will be wonderful again.
The M7 is well balanced, shoots and feels just like the other M's, and to me has no significant downside. If you don't like the automation, don't use it. In terms of value, the M7 is selling for about half of the current list price in the used market. Compared to their original prices M6s actually sell for a bit more. I can't think of a single better value in all of photography than a well cared for used M7.
If the M7 seems to be for you, give it a try. If you don't like it, there is a ready and active used marketplace.
RayPA
Ignore It (It'll go away)
I've got an M7 .72. It's a great camera. I've never regretted buying it, not once. My *only* complaint has been battery consumption, and that is a minor issue for me really.
Next to the M8, the M7 could be the most trash-talked-about camera, followed closely by the M6, the M5, the M4, ... and most things emblazoned with the Leica logo. j/k of course.
.
Next to the M8, the M7 could be the most trash-talked-about camera, followed closely by the M6, the M5, the M4, ... and most things emblazoned with the Leica logo.
j/k of course..
Ororaro
Well-known
kshapero said:
I have to outbid you. I am offering 1$.
Ororaro
Well-known
shutterflower said:
I have complains. Coming from a Bessa-R, I can tell you it beats the Ms on many levels:
-Much better VF on the Bessa.
-focusing patch bigger and clearer on Bessa.
-Frame lines much clearer and better on Bessa.
-film loading is much easier on Bessa.
-I can understand people complaining about flare patch on M6 Ms
... And more...
Maybe the people that think Leica is the absolute best need a Brain adjustment? I think so.
photogdave
Shops local
Once I got the hang of the Leica rapid load, I found it faster than a traditional swing film door load.
Everone is always talking about this flare problem. Never bothers me.
I'd love an M7 but still too expensive. After being disappointed by the R4 viewfinder I think I'm going to trade my M6 for a Hexar RF. 1/4000 sec baby!
Everone is always talking about this flare problem. Never bothers me.
I'd love an M7 but still too expensive. After being disappointed by the R4 viewfinder I think I'm going to trade my M6 for a Hexar RF. 1/4000 sec baby!
rxmd
May contain traces of nut
Anyone that makes a statement such as this needs some perspective.shutterflower said:
For example, I would tend to second much of what KB23 says about Ms being worse than Bessas in some respects.
Philipp
If I were to buy a second Leica body to join my M2, it would be an M7 .58x. Very attractive I think, but not too likely to happen.
AusDLK
Famous Photographer
I respect my M7. Up until now it has been my most heavily used camera. It jammed on me once at the most inopportune time but other then that it has been solid as a rock.
But I have recently bought three Hexar RF's for less I paid for the M7 that I also bought used.
Now I use one or two of these most of time and the M7 only when I'm feeling sorry for it.
The Hexar RF is terrific camera. In many ways better then the M7. The only real problem is explaining to people "well, no, it's not really a Leica..."
But I have recently bought three Hexar RF's for less I paid for the M7 that I also bought used.
Now I use one or two of these most of time and the M7 only when I'm feeling sorry for it.
The Hexar RF is terrific camera. In many ways better then the M7. The only real problem is explaining to people "well, no, it's not really a Leica..."
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sepiareverb
genius and moron
Yes, battery consumption is one thing you could complain about- forgot that above, and I had just needed to change my batteries after three months! Yes, I shoot a lot, and yes I do turn it off as it goes in the bag 99% of the time, but three months on a set of batteries seems a bit lame. But they're batteries- small and easy to carry so why complain?