Anyone telling Epson about M8 woes?

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pfogle

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Just a thought... with all the heartache and teeth gnashing over at Leica forum re the M8, maybe now's the time to whisper in Epson's ear that this is a golden opportunity to get it on with the R-D2? The market's there and humming...😀

ps maybe they could pick up some cheap Leica rangefinder modules while they're at it - oops, hush my mouth 😉
 
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I don't think Epson will be finished with licking their wounds any time soon! To be honest if I were in Epson's shoes, I'd think "well if the magnificent Leica can't get it right, then I doubt we will"
 
I'm hoping Cosina are taking note. A digital Bessa priced at about the R-D1s level with better support and the Voigtlander name would be a smash hit, and Epson have shown an existing Bessa body can make a good digital body.

Ian
 
Ash said:
I don't think Epson will be finished with licking their wounds any time soon! To be honest if I were in Epson's shoes, I'd think "well if the magnificent Leica can't get it right, then I doubt we will"
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What I don't understand is that, unlike the M8, there is nothing wrong with the design of the RD-1, the camera is really good, the problems are only with QC and support; and I would have tought that, for a company like Epson, those should be easier to handle than all the issues related to the design of a digital RF 😕
 
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Ash said:
I don't think Epson will be finished with licking their wounds any time soon! To be honest if I were in Epson's shoes, I'd think "well if the magnificent Leica can't get it right, then I doubt we will"
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As I said in a previous post, if you work at Epson, and you mention the RD-1, you have to put a fiver in the swearbox.
 
What Epson should be thinking is, "We ought to hurry up and finish refurbishing all those exchanged R-D 1s we're sitting on. They're flying out of the Epson Store at $1599!"

For some Leica M8 users, a refurb R-D 1 might be a less expensive stopgap solution than a set of IR-cut filters and a copy of Photoshop CS2 for retouching out highlight streaks and green blobs!
 
jlw said:
What Epson should be thinking is, "We ought to hurry up and finish refurbishing all those exchanged R-D 1s we're sitting on. They're flying out of the Epson Store at $1599!"
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Exactly what I would think if I were Epson. But I'm not. Maybe Mr K should take over the whole venture, even though he doesn't like digital much.
 
I am not convinced yet that this is the case. It is looking more likely by the day that M8 is actually doing what it is supposed to. It is not that the design was wrong but that many people expected something different and that is a different problem. 😉 The bandins and ghosting issues are different and couls be in a similar vein to those experienced by Epson. Hopefully, Leica's repsonse will be better. I would think that the swear box for mentioning a dRF will be in existance at Epson for some time.

Kim

fgianni said:
What I don't understand is that, unlike the M8, there is nothing wrong with the design of the RD-1, the camera is really good, the problems are only with QC and support; and I would have tought that, for a company like Epson, those should be easier to handle than all the issues related to the design of a digital RF 😕
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Kim Coxon said:
I am not convinced yet that this is the case. It is looking more likely by the day that M8 is actually doing what it is supposed to. It is not that the design was wrong but that many people expected something different and that is a different problem. 😉 The bandins and ghosting issues are different and couls be in a similar vein to those experienced by Epson. Hopefully, Leica's repsonse will be better. I would think that the swear box for mentioning a dRF will be in existance at Epson for some time.

Kim
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sorry Leica, but I don't buy this argument that this was a deliberate design decision for two reasons:

1) Tho' I'm not an expert in this field, I have worked in optical research labs, and I just don't buy the argument that a marginally thicker/more effective IR filter would noticeable affect the sharpness.

2) If it was deliberate, how come Leica haven't supplied the filters necessary? They would not put in a requirement for a filter to maximise quality, and then get people to go out and buy someone elses glass! It just doesn't add up.

Nope, they screwed up and now they're b/s-ing to try and save face.

ps that's not to say I'm not very impressed with the quality I've seen, even on small jpgs. Kudos to them for that!
 
There is no need for Epson to buy Leica RF modules, the Zeiss Ikon is made by CV and uses a very long base RF so that`ll do Nicely 🙂 .. To be honest, all they need to do is put in the ZI RF unit and slap in the D80 CCD and hey presto, an RD2 ;-) of course, it`ll need a lot more processor power, a fatter battery and considerably more buffer but they ought to be able to do it using parts bin bits like before..
As someone said, it really needs CV to sell the thing and stick a Voigtlander badge on it (the RD1 would have sold better under the V name!) .. Mr K`s dislike of Digital is Luddite to say the least, I bet He rides a Penny farthing and cranks his car over with a starting handle ;-) . He`s doing well with all that excellent glass but a Digital Bessa would go down great guns (which is basically what the RD1 is anyway, only with far better build)
 
One thing I don't get about the RD1 (and I'm sure it's been said a million times before), why the crank lever for cocking the shutter? It's not as if the camera is battery independant. This is why when it was first mentioned in AP in an April issue it was regarded as an April fools joke. Much the same as the xpan being discontinued due to EU legislation. Turns out both were true!
 
In general, I don't think Kobiyashi-san will be competing directly with his customers or even with Leica. His lenses even have different maximum apertures than all of Leica's line-up. He has specialized in products that relate to his core competencies. If you look at his cameras, they are all based on the same basic module. A digital rangefinder is a different beast; don't look for a C/V digital cam any time soon. I think we'd see a ZI digital rangefinder sooner.

BTW, mpt600, I think if you used an R-D1 for any length of time, you'd find the wind mechanism unobtrusive.

iml said:
I'm hoping Cosina are taking note. A digital Bessa priced at about the R-D1s level with better support and the Voigtlander name would be a smash hit, and Epson have shown an existing Bessa body can make a good digital body.

Ian
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mpt600 said:
Oh, I'm sure I'd find the wind unobtrusive, it'd be just like a film camera, but why not let the battery do it?
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Just another complicated thing to break? Another drain on a battery not known for its long life? Because camera users are used to it? Because the C/V line-up uses it and they wanted to re-engineer as little as possible? 'Cause they blew their R&D budget on those top-deck dial? Just because? I dunno.

Kim: Shows you what I know. 😉 Hey, if Mr. K. makes a digital RF - I'm buying it, using it and enjoying it. The RD-1 has been very good to me.
Ben
 
mpt600 said:
One thing I don't get about the RD1 (and I'm sure it's been said a million times before), why the crank lever for cocking the shutter? It's not as if the camera is battery independant. This is why when it was first mentioned in AP in an April issue it was regarded as an April fools joke. Much the same as the xpan being discontinued due to EU legislation. Turns out both were true!
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I recently held a RD1 and a M8, both for the first time and within a few minutes of each other.
I liked the crank lever.
 
Yeah, good points. I still find it a strange feature nonetheless, and a feature Leica didn't replicate on the M8, but hey, it's still a camera, and people like it. Not trying to knock it at all. Wonder if there'll ever be a digital camera with no "scene selections", just a meter, a shutter speed dial and an aperture dial. Might be fun.
 
Benjamin Marks said:
A digital rangefinder is a different beast; don't look for a C/V digital cam any time soon. I think we'd see a ZI digital rangefinder sooner.
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Either will do me. I think they're both made by Cosina anyway 🙂

Ian
 
Adam-T said:
There is no need for Epson to buy Leica RF modules, the Zeiss Ikon is made by CV and uses a very long base RF so that`ll do Nicely 🙂 .. To be honest, all they need to do is put in the ZI RF unit and slap in the D80 CCD...
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Seen my "10mp vs 6" thread in the R-D 1 forum? I realize my observations there are limited (and have proved to be somewhat controversial) but I'm not sure that just plugging in the D80's CCD would be the way to go.

Who knows, though -- maybe it would shine if paired with Epson's mysterious "Ediart" chip (the R-D 1's occasionally mentioned but basically never explained image processor chip depicted in some early marketing materials about the camera.) After all, Epson knows a lot about image processing from its printer business, and I've sometimes wondered if Ediart didn't account for a lot of the R-D 1's better-than-you'd-expect-from-6-megapixels performance...
 
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