Anyone use Rodinal with S-L-O-W emulsions?

JJW

JJW

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I am thinking about getting back into shooting 35mm b&w negative film once again after a long hiatus.

The stuff I used to use for high quality enlargements... Pan-X and APX 25... are long gone.

What's left? Ilford Pan F+ and the Croatian ADOX clones aka EFKE 25, 50 etc.

Has anyone shot these films and souped them in Rodinal?

I shoot largely urban and suburban landscapes and was wondering how these films in Rodinal would do for tonality and sharpness if the negatives are blown up BIG to 13x19.5 (35mm full frame on 16x20 paper).

I have seen MANY MANY Rodinal PanF+ & EFKE samples posted on the web but they always seem to be shots of belly button lint under a 25 watt lightbulb handheld and wide open. It is frankly hard to tell what exactly the film is doing under those conditions...

Anyone have samples of prints they have made while shooting outdoors on a bright day with the sun at your back?

Any posts of what you have would be appreciated.

Thanks!
 
If you're planning to enlarge the pictures to a relatively large size why not simply use a developper that will reliably give finer grain like Xtol or ID11 ? Otherwise I suggest trying rodinal 1+100 to try and achieve a finer grain structure :)
 
The skinny on "fine grained" developers

The skinny on "fine grained" developers

So called "fine grained" developers contain sodium sulfite, which dissolves the grain. As a result, the grain is reduced in size and hence "finer".

The price you pay is in the definition of the grain structure which starts to look like oatmeal, especially when you blow up the negative beyond 6x. It also does a number on the image, so it looks less "sharp".

Rodinal is a "high acutance" developer since the film's grain is not reduced in size by any additive.

So high acutance developers are good for fine grained films and fine grained developers are better for faster films like Tri-X.
 
I see, interesting. I'll bear that in mind next time I develop some fuji acros :)
 
By the way, has anyone had problems obtaining Rodinal recently? Not me, but one has heard some sad news about Agfa's economy.
 
Wilt,
Do you mean other than the fact that AgfaPhoto doesn't exist anymore? I am prepared to move over to one of the Rodinal substitutes soon. Actually, I'm evaluating whether I want to move to a whole other standard dev, but if I decide on Rodinal, I'll go for the Calbe or Photo Formulary variants. Might as well start getting those times down now.

Rodinal isn't actually all that high acutance, it's just higher than solvent developers like Perceptol or D76 stock. As mentioned, an acutance developer looks fantastic with slower films, as their inherently smaller grain structure works well with the sharpness from the soup. If you want a nice middle ground, D76 1+3 or XTOL (forget the dilution, but not stock) are excellent compromises between sharpness and grain (more on the sharpness side).

The tonality of Efke 50 in Rodinal 1+100 is especially nice to my eyes, but I've only tried that combination a few times.

allan
 
I'm playing around with a couple of slow films (Maco UP64c and TP64c). I'm experimenting with rating them at ISO50. I've souped a few frames of TP64c in Ilfosol-S (1:14) and plan to try a few in Rodinal (1:50) as well. I'll try to remember to let you know if any of it works. Maco suggests using Agfa APX 25 times for developers other than their own as a starting point.

Peter
 
JJW said:
...What's left? Ilford Pan F+ and the Croatian ADOX clones aka EFKE 25, 50 etc.
Has anyone shot these films and souped them in Rodinal?
...Anyone have samples of prints they have made while shooting outdoors on a bright day with the sun at your back?
Any posts of what you have would be appreciated.
Click to expand...

Well it just so happens that I have such a sample.

Shot in bright summer sunlight. The white facings on the building were extremely bright, and the lower portion of the building was in deep shadow, so quite a contrast range (I was using an incident meter so I can't be more specific).

The enlarged section gives some idea of grain and resolution; however, the shot was hand-held at 1/30 sec, and my bottom-of-the-line Canon flatbed scanner doesn't really do "sharp", so the films potential is better than what's shown here.

Pan-F, rated at ISO25, Rodinal 1:100, 10 1/2 min @ 20dC.
 
peterc said:
I'm playing around with a couple of slow films (Maco UP64c and TP64c). I'm experimenting with rating them at ISO50. I've souped a few frames of TP64c in Ilfosol-S (1:14) and plan to try a few in Rodinal (1:50) as well. I'll try to remember to let you know if any of it works. Maco suggests using Agfa APX 25 times for developers other than their own as a starting point.

Peter
Click to expand...

When people read the following for the first time they moan in disbelief, but here's a truism: Stand Processing - ANY B&W film in Rodinal 1:150 for 60 minutes without agitation delivers great compensating results with even skies (and other broad similar-tonal areas). Yes, it's grainy, and more suitable for fine grain MF and LF (still on topic, there are MF and LF rangefinders). Absolutely not recommended for flat lighting situations.

In fact, the specific developing time is closer to 40 minutes, but longer doesn't hurt. It's a completion (or expiration) process. Add developer to tank. Rap to remove bubbles. Agitate a couple times. Walk away and don't touch it again until you pour it out and stop (or rinse) then fix.

I use it regularly with APX 100 (of which I have 120 rolls left) and Efke 25. Nice, sharp grain. Grain is your friend.

RODINAL IS HISTORY, but J&C carries R09, which I will be trying in March when the my Rodinal supply is down to a litre. See: http://www.jandcphoto.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=27
 
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If I had the time, I'd use high dilution/long dev time techniques for all film. Compensation is a great tool.

allan
 
I've been using Efke 25/Rodinal combination for several months now. Best results are one minute pre-soak, Rodinal at 1:100 for 17 minutes at 20 degress celcius, agitate for the first 30 seconds and then 5 seconds every other minute.

Attached is a pic using this combination. More pics in my gallery.

Jim Bielecki
 
Rodinal may not be history after all, as I've just read on the fotoimpex forum there is a buyer for the chemical plant. First they want to produce chemicals for color labs but they produce B/W chemicals, too. It may be 30% more expensive, but with Rodinal that is no problem, is it?
 
Jim: That is tasty, indeed. I may try some Efke 25 w/ Rodinal. Have you tried Pan F+ and Rodinal? If so, how did you like it, and what time/temp/agitation did you use?

I recently processed some APX100 using the Rodinal 1:100/74F/20min (or so, can't remember) and the negs look good, though I haven't made any contact sheets or enlargements.

With Agfa essentially gone for b&w sensitive materials and Kodak iffy, I will standardising on Ilford ... PanF+, FP4+, HP5+ and, if they produce it, Delta 25.

Earl
 
Here are two pics taken with Pan-F developed in Rodinal, both with a Leica MP/Canon 50mm F1.2, the gal at F1.6 and the horse shot wide open at F1.2. According to my notes I shot the Pan-F at an E.I. of 50, Rodinal 1:50, eleven minutes at 20 degrees celcius with "Kodak" style agitation.

Actually I don't see myself using Pan-F much now that I've found Efke 25. This is an excellent film that scans well and can produce excellent darkroom prints.

One of the real losses in this Agfa debacle is that APX 100 is no longer going to be produced. Rodinal and APX 100 are a natural fit.

I have a several year supply of Rodinal so I'm OK that front. Cross your fingers that the rumors Rodinal will stay in production are true!

Jim Bielecki
 
Jim: Thanks for posting the Pan F+ shots. I think I'll get some Efke KB25 and make some direct comparisons myself.

ddutchison: Somehow I had not seen your post. Very impressive.

Earl
 
A couple of Maco TP64c shots from my experimental roll. I'm afraid conditions were far from ideal -- heavy overcast and snowing. Both were take with a Kiev 4 and a Jupiter 8. The film was rated at ISO50.
The Holistic Psychic was developed in Ilfosol-S 1+14 for 10 minutes. Not a great combination as it produced quite thin negs.
The chairs shot was developed in Rodinal 1:50 for 10 minutes. Much better negs but still a bit contrasty.

Peter
 
Peter: I'm not sure what you might have wanted from the Rodinal negs, but for the overcast conditions you've been having, I think the results are quite nice. Perhaps not "accurate", but very pleasing.

Earl
 
Trius said:
Perhaps not "accurate", but very pleasing.l
Click to expand...
Thanks Earl. The Ilfosol negs were quite hard to work with. The Rodinal negs scanned better but still had a compressed dynamic range. I'm going to have to try a greater dilution and see if that gives me better results. Of course it could be the film ... TP64c is touted as a Tech Pan substitute and is thus pretty contrasty to start with.

Peter
 
Peter: Rodinal at greater dilution would probably do the trick. I don't know that film, but if it's a Tech Pan substitute then you're probably right. But finding a protocol with Rodinal that works well could make for a good combination.

Earl
 
As a matter of fact Rodinal is the developer of choice for EFKE/ADOX 25 (same thing).
I use Rodinal 1+100 for 10 minutes, agitating once/minute.
EVAMPLE HERE

Grain is invisible, even at 16x20.

One of the problems with the efke emulsion is that over developing makes the contrast boom in secodns, rodinal 1+100 allows a little bit of flexibility in that sense, that I believe Xtol, D76 and such will not give you since they are far more active.

PS. Xtol contains NO sulfite, it is an ascorbate based developer.
 
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