Time for a new computer at home, my wife wants one. She will be running mostly things like Matlab, Visual Studio, and Compilers for embedded processors. Typical Girl Stuff. The development tools are mostly free download tools from the various microprocessor manufacturers, and run on XP.
Is anyone running XP software under Win 7 Pro, and what are your experiences?
The alternate is to get a used XP machine, or a new one with Vista and the XP "downgrade" option. I use Win98se for my work. Works for me, and is better than ME.
Is anyone running XP software under Win 7 Pro, and what are your experiences?
The alternate is to get a used XP machine, or a new one with Vista and the XP "downgrade" option. I use Win98se for my work. Works for me, and is better than ME.
scottwallick
ambition ≥ skill
I haven't had to run compatibility mode for applications in Win 7 so far. The best strategy is to look at the specs for any software and make sure it doesn't say it is incompatible with Win 7.
The major thing to be aware of, though, is that most modern PCs are utilizing the x64 (64-bit) environment over the older x86 (32-bit) environment. Some software simply cannot run in an x64 environment (e.g., Silkypix last time I checked). Most can. And this is not a Win XP vs Win 7 issue, i.e., you'll need to check that the specs say it cannot run in x64/64-bit. You'll have to be picky when looking at PCs/the version of Win 7 to chose between x86 vs x64. My personal experience is that x64 is much, much faster and stable.
Now, certain version of Win 7 offer 'XP Mode' (different than running an application with 'XP comparability'). XP Mode is a virtualization tool that lets you run a whole XP system within your software. You'll need to be particular about choosing a PC to find one that will run XP Mode, since it requires a CPU that supports chip-level virtualization. XP Mode is like having a second computer within Windows 7. XP Mode is pure Win XP, no different.
The major thing to be aware of, though, is that most modern PCs are utilizing the x64 (64-bit) environment over the older x86 (32-bit) environment. Some software simply cannot run in an x64 environment (e.g., Silkypix last time I checked). Most can. And this is not a Win XP vs Win 7 issue, i.e., you'll need to check that the specs say it cannot run in x64/64-bit. You'll have to be picky when looking at PCs/the version of Win 7 to chose between x86 vs x64. My personal experience is that x64 is much, much faster and stable.
Now, certain version of Win 7 offer 'XP Mode' (different than running an application with 'XP comparability'). XP Mode is a virtualization tool that lets you run a whole XP system within your software. You'll need to be particular about choosing a PC to find one that will run XP Mode, since it requires a CPU that supports chip-level virtualization. XP Mode is like having a second computer within Windows 7. XP Mode is pure Win XP, no different.
Good information. I remember the real-mode and virtual 8086 modes for the x386 through Pentium IV- have not looked into the 64-bit instruction set. I'm more the "take over the interrupt vector table" applications with my code. These new OS's just do not like getting out of the way, I end up still using Phar Lap DOS.
I think we'll go with the Win 7 Pro. Dell seems to offer it on machines designed for XP mode.
I will check the Microchip site for Win 7 info on their development tools.
I think we'll go with the Win 7 Pro. Dell seems to offer it on machines designed for XP mode.
I will check the Microchip site for Win 7 info on their development tools.
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Beemermark
Veteran
Some new machines cannot be downgraded to XP since drivers don't exist for all the hardware. This is especially true with laptops. I just went to new desktop and would have been happy with XP but forget it. Just plan on buying / upgrading your software.
And Microsoft wonders why they are losing market share to Linux and others.
I hate being herded into a new OS and upgrading software packages for no good reason other than the idiots at at Microsoft say so.
We've been buying Dell computers at work, with the XP downgrade. No one trusts the new version of Windows based on Vista experience.
Damn, I miss VMS. Used to write all my own Device Drivers in it.
I hate being herded into a new OS and upgrading software packages for no good reason other than the idiots at at Microsoft say so.
We've been buying Dell computers at work, with the XP downgrade. No one trusts the new version of Windows based on Vista experience.
Damn, I miss VMS. Used to write all my own Device Drivers in it.
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MartinP
Veteran
Brian, I think the answer for your problem is virtualisation. There are several options over the whole range of expensive to open-source, with or without a support-contract.
It will be possible to copy the relevant XP disk-image and "copy" it to a virtual-machine using similar hardware to the original. That would also guarantee making the older machines future-proof too, as at some point the old hardware will die while having the possibility to live on virtually. You will be able to set up a virtual machine to run your Win98se too of course.
Additionally, the OS of the base operating system (Linux, Solaris, Mac-OS, Windows) can be 64-bit while the virtual-machine(s) can be 32-bit, giving you a bit more security independent of future hardware availability.
It will be possible to copy the relevant XP disk-image and "copy" it to a virtual-machine using similar hardware to the original. That would also guarantee making the older machines future-proof too, as at some point the old hardware will die while having the possibility to live on virtually. You will be able to set up a virtual machine to run your Win98se too of course.
Additionally, the OS of the base operating system (Linux, Solaris, Mac-OS, Windows) can be 64-bit while the virtual-machine(s) can be 32-bit, giving you a bit more security independent of future hardware availability.
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I appreciate the advise- and will look into the virtual machine solution for longer term. We have done this at work.
wpb
Well-known
Just upgraded myself, on a production PC at work, but have not used XP mode. I got a good deal on Vista 64 Ultimate with a free upgrade to Windows 7 Ultimate. I can't imagine you would run into any problems, I have Vista home premium on my laptop at home and even have encountered no problems running a Nikon Coolscan with XP drivers. As long as you are not using any esoteric devices, say a SCSI HDD, you should be fine. The 64-bit version, and especially the firefox-like Internet Explorer 64, are super fast, and I loath Internet Explorer. Windows 7 is (just about) the operating system they have been promising us since Windows 2000. Last bit of info: your processor must include Intel Visualization technology to use XP mode, if you are making the computer from scratch or upgrading.
maddocknail
Newbie
I want to get Windows 7. Just for the **** of it. I don't want to do dual boot as that's a lot of work and my hard drive
already has 2 partitions on it.
Basically, what I want to do is just put Windows 7 in place of XP, which I'm pretty sure I can do.
My hard drive has 2 partitions. One is C:, which is where Windows XP is installed. The other is D:, which has all my
important data (including games). So basically I already backed my system up. However, what I want to know is if I can
even do this without consequence. If I were to just clear out the C: partition and install Windows 7 on it, would I still be
able to access the D: partition without any issues? Or would I have to reformat that partition to so Windows 7 could
interact with it? I have reinstalled Windows XP on C: before without having to do anything to D:, but that's probably
because I made both partitions when installing XP the first time...
Anyway, any info would be appreciated.
already has 2 partitions on it.
Basically, what I want to do is just put Windows 7 in place of XP, which I'm pretty sure I can do.
My hard drive has 2 partitions. One is C:, which is where Windows XP is installed. The other is D:, which has all my
important data (including games). So basically I already backed my system up. However, what I want to know is if I can
even do this without consequence. If I were to just clear out the C: partition and install Windows 7 on it, would I still be
able to access the D: partition without any issues? Or would I have to reformat that partition to so Windows 7 could
interact with it? I have reinstalled Windows XP on C: before without having to do anything to D:, but that's probably
because I made both partitions when installing XP the first time...
Anyway, any info would be appreciated.
naruto
GASitis.. finally cured?
Hi Brian
Win7 has meant that I have not used my Mac for over a month. And, this is for work and play. That's how good this OS is. It's fast, considerably lean, and like the Mac, everything seems to just work on it.
1. XP compatibility mode works just fine.
2. In case it doesn't, you have the choice of installing XP in a virtual environment. I suggest VirtualBox by Sun (now Oracle), which I use to run Ubuntu within Win7 (under x64 bit mode).
3. 32 bit applications run perfectly OK. They are installed under Program Files (x86) to differentiate them from the 64 bit apps.
4. You get the slight power of UNIX via the Interix layer. SUA utilities/SDK on Win7 allows a UNIX stack to run alongside Win7, giving you a Korn and C-shell with gcc, and a bunch of other utilities. It's great to write and do minor testing before going to full production mode coding (no support for fork() calls and /proc is woefully behind current Linux kernels).
Win7 has meant that I have not used my Mac for over a month. And, this is for work and play. That's how good this OS is. It's fast, considerably lean, and like the Mac, everything seems to just work on it.
1. XP compatibility mode works just fine.
2. In case it doesn't, you have the choice of installing XP in a virtual environment. I suggest VirtualBox by Sun (now Oracle), which I use to run Ubuntu within Win7 (under x64 bit mode).
3. 32 bit applications run perfectly OK. They are installed under Program Files (x86) to differentiate them from the 64 bit apps.
4. You get the slight power of UNIX via the Interix layer. SUA utilities/SDK on Win7 allows a UNIX stack to run alongside Win7, giving you a Korn and C-shell with gcc, and a bunch of other utilities. It's great to write and do minor testing before going to full production mode coding (no support for fork() calls and /proc is woefully behind current Linux kernels).
We ordered a Dell with Win7 "Ultimate". I'm pretty sure that means Microsoft has to stop bringing out new OS's, as this is the "Ultimate". (humor)
We'll be installing some old software on it- some old emulators for embedded processors and up through latest IDE's and Matlab.
This will be Nina's primary machine. I'm going to see how it works out. I weenied out and max'd out the memory on my Toughbook CF-50...
We'll be installing some old software on it- some old emulators for embedded processors and up through latest IDE's and Matlab.
This will be Nina's primary machine. I'm going to see how it works out. I weenied out and max'd out the memory on my Toughbook CF-50...
RichC
Well-known
Brian, you'll probably be pleasantly surprised how few problems you encounter using old programs on Windows 7. I have loads of old stuff, and everything runs fine, even two ancient programs over a decade old - Office 97 and Corel Ventura 8. No problem getting old hardware working - if a Windows 7 driver wasn't available, I found the Vista one worked fine.
Prior to the new computer, we were running Windows 2000 and XP.
<whine>
I generally like Windows 7 but Microsoft have automated some things that drive me nuts! Most are to do with changes to Windows Explorer:
• The files pane refreshes automatically, so if you copy files into a folder or create a new folder, the items don't stay at the end the files until the folder is closed/reopened or manually refreshed but instead are immediately placed among all the other files/folders in sort order (e.g. by name, date, etc.). Really annoying: if you want to work on those files you just copied/created, you have to either select a different sort order (e.g. date modified) or try and find them individually - a right pain if you have hundreds of files with identical properties except for their name (my situation)!
• Manual sort has been removed. I used to arrange photographs by visual appearance by dragging them around - very useful when working out hanging plans for exhibitions to see which photos work together. Now, only automatic sorting is allowed, so I have to name my photos with numbers and change the number to change the order! Grrr!
• Image thumbnails are now half the size of those used in XP. Makes it more difficult to see the images properly and make judgements about them.
• When you select a folder in the navigation pane, it jumps to the bottom of the pane, hiding all the subfolders in the selected folder, forcing you to scroll the folder tree upwards. This is irritating and pointless behaviour. This can be lessened by breaking synchronisation between the navigation and file panes by deselecting "Automatically expand to current folder" in Folder Options - but that, of course, has its own drawbacks. Grrr again!
Windows search doesn't work well either compared with Windows XP:
• Rather than the brute force Windows XP method, Windows 7 can only use indexing - if a file's not indexed, it won't be found, and if a file type isn't flagged for contents searching, Windows won't search inside it until you add it. And updating the index is not instantaneous, which means that files several hours old may not be found.
• Options for advanced search no longer available. Some are built into the standard search (e.g. searching subfolders) but most options are now implemented using a search syntax and manually typing your search parameters (e.g. searching for a specific file type). Again, a right pain in the ar**! Way more user-unfriendly than Windows XP...
• Indexing doesn't work well. Whatever I do I cannot get Windows 7 to search inside my Word files.
In short, I don't think Windows 7 is as great as all the reviews make it out to be. I guess it's been "dumbed down" because, presumably, Microsoft wants to make Windows as easy to use for the "typical" user - who's presumably not especially computer-literate.
But the changes make Windows 7 more awkward to use if you are computer-savvy.
Why couldn't MS have left those options in? Why can't I turn off auto-sorting? Turn on manual file arrangement? Use brute force searching?
It's not a case of not liking change. I like change. But change should provide an alternative way of dong something - NOT take away choice! For example, there is no longer an easy way to play around with the arrangement of image thumbnails for exhibitions - Windows won't do it, nor have I found any software that lets me drag around thumbnails manually: I've had to resort to printing out thumbnails of photos and shuffling these around on my real, wood desktop. (Yes, I can arrange thumbnails on the Windows Desktop - but the Windows 7 thumbnails are too small to see properly!)
Although I won't be going back to Windows XP - it is certainly more usable than Windows 7, albeit more ugly. Personally, I wish I'd upgraded to Vista instead of Windows 7, as Vista retains some of those useful features taken away in Windows 7.
</whine>
Prior to the new computer, we were running Windows 2000 and XP.
<whine>
I generally like Windows 7 but Microsoft have automated some things that drive me nuts! Most are to do with changes to Windows Explorer:
• The files pane refreshes automatically, so if you copy files into a folder or create a new folder, the items don't stay at the end the files until the folder is closed/reopened or manually refreshed but instead are immediately placed among all the other files/folders in sort order (e.g. by name, date, etc.). Really annoying: if you want to work on those files you just copied/created, you have to either select a different sort order (e.g. date modified) or try and find them individually - a right pain if you have hundreds of files with identical properties except for their name (my situation)!
• Manual sort has been removed. I used to arrange photographs by visual appearance by dragging them around - very useful when working out hanging plans for exhibitions to see which photos work together. Now, only automatic sorting is allowed, so I have to name my photos with numbers and change the number to change the order! Grrr!
• Image thumbnails are now half the size of those used in XP. Makes it more difficult to see the images properly and make judgements about them.
• When you select a folder in the navigation pane, it jumps to the bottom of the pane, hiding all the subfolders in the selected folder, forcing you to scroll the folder tree upwards. This is irritating and pointless behaviour. This can be lessened by breaking synchronisation between the navigation and file panes by deselecting "Automatically expand to current folder" in Folder Options - but that, of course, has its own drawbacks. Grrr again!
Windows search doesn't work well either compared with Windows XP:
• Rather than the brute force Windows XP method, Windows 7 can only use indexing - if a file's not indexed, it won't be found, and if a file type isn't flagged for contents searching, Windows won't search inside it until you add it. And updating the index is not instantaneous, which means that files several hours old may not be found.
• Options for advanced search no longer available. Some are built into the standard search (e.g. searching subfolders) but most options are now implemented using a search syntax and manually typing your search parameters (e.g. searching for a specific file type). Again, a right pain in the ar**! Way more user-unfriendly than Windows XP...
• Indexing doesn't work well. Whatever I do I cannot get Windows 7 to search inside my Word files.
In short, I don't think Windows 7 is as great as all the reviews make it out to be. I guess it's been "dumbed down" because, presumably, Microsoft wants to make Windows as easy to use for the "typical" user - who's presumably not especially computer-literate.
But the changes make Windows 7 more awkward to use if you are computer-savvy.
Why couldn't MS have left those options in? Why can't I turn off auto-sorting? Turn on manual file arrangement? Use brute force searching?
It's not a case of not liking change. I like change. But change should provide an alternative way of dong something - NOT take away choice! For example, there is no longer an easy way to play around with the arrangement of image thumbnails for exhibitions - Windows won't do it, nor have I found any software that lets me drag around thumbnails manually: I've had to resort to printing out thumbnails of photos and shuffling these around on my real, wood desktop. (Yes, I can arrange thumbnails on the Windows Desktop - but the Windows 7 thumbnails are too small to see properly!)
Although I won't be going back to Windows XP - it is certainly more usable than Windows 7, albeit more ugly. Personally, I wish I'd upgraded to Vista instead of Windows 7, as Vista retains some of those useful features taken away in Windows 7.
</whine>
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I'm surprised to see some of those features missing. Nina got "Ultimate", so I'll see if they can be turned on.
And for a good test: I plan on running the CP/M emulator in a DOS Window in an XP session on WIN 7.
And if that works, I'll try the 8051 emulator.
And for a good test: I plan on running the CP/M emulator in a DOS Window in an XP session on WIN 7.
And if that works, I'll try the 8051 emulator.
RichC
Well-known
If you find solutions/workarounds to some of my gripes, do let me know...
I've installed Copernic Desktop Search as it actually works, unlike Windows search!