raid
Dad Photographer
Bob,
Is Dechert excluding lenses such as the Canon 35mm/1.8 or 35mm/3.5 or the Canon 85mm/1.9?
Raid
Is Dechert excluding lenses such as the Canon 35mm/1.8 or 35mm/3.5 or the Canon 85mm/1.9?
Raid
bob cole
Well-known
Are Canon 28mm 2.8 LTM lenses rare?
Raid, Dechert, as has already been said many times, wrote his book on Canon Cameras and gave almost no information on Canon lenses and almost no information on whether he liked them or did not like them...I gave you all the information Dechert provided where he took a stand on the lenses...The last time I heard, Peter Dechert was living in Santa Fe, N.M....Maybe, if my daugter, Fran, runs into him, she can ask him to update the book...regards, bob cole
=======================================raid amin said:
Raid, Dechert, as has already been said many times, wrote his book on Canon Cameras and gave almost no information on Canon lenses and almost no information on whether he liked them or did not like them...I gave you all the information Dechert provided where he took a stand on the lenses...The last time I heard, Peter Dechert was living in Santa Fe, N.M....Maybe, if my daugter, Fran, runs into him, she can ask him to update the book...regards, bob cole
raid
Dad Photographer
Thanks, Bob. Such information,while based on the views of one person, still are very useful due to his knowledge and experience.
Raid
Raid
Sonnar2
Well-known
Dechert is strong at cameras, as well as *early* lenses (pre-1950 stuff).
I.e. he shows some "black" lenses in a picture together with a 1956 camera, regardless that i.e black 3.5/100mm wasn't made then, what we *now* exactly know from Canon Camera Museum...
Nevertheless, many of his sources passed away in the meantime so they may not any people (CANON employees) left to add something first-hand, or prove them wrong. So little evidence exists that all questions can be answered his book left open. The same may, or may not be true for Randal Hooper's article on lenses in LHSA magazine of the early 1990's.
Production numbers of every Japanese company is always difficult to gain, or unreliable. Pentax figures are proven wrong 1000x in m-fortytwo.org database for example. Probably a database for CANON lens data would show the same.
cheers, Frank
I.e. he shows some "black" lenses in a picture together with a 1956 camera, regardless that i.e black 3.5/100mm wasn't made then, what we *now* exactly know from Canon Camera Museum...
Nevertheless, many of his sources passed away in the meantime so they may not any people (CANON employees) left to add something first-hand, or prove them wrong. So little evidence exists that all questions can be answered his book left open. The same may, or may not be true for Randal Hooper's article on lenses in LHSA magazine of the early 1990's.
Production numbers of every Japanese company is always difficult to gain, or unreliable. Pentax figures are proven wrong 1000x in m-fortytwo.org database for example. Probably a database for CANON lens data would show the same.
cheers, Frank
raid
Dad Photographer
I try lenses out, and when I like them, I keep them. This is regardless of what someone else writes about that lens.
Raid
Raid
Bill58
Native Texan
Does anybody have one for sale now?
Bill
Bill
Sonnar2
Well-known
raid amin said:
That's why I made so many words about the 3.5/28mm
IMHO, it's more a sleeper than the 2.8/35.
ampguy
Veteran
just checked KEH
just checked KEH
odd, they don't seem to have either the 2.8 or 3.5.
just checked KEH
odd, they don't seem to have either the 2.8 or 3.5.
Bill58 said:
Bill58
Native Texan
Can you translate "schtum" ?
Sonnar2
Well-known
Here is a 3.5/28 for sale:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=016&item=260032321312
If you buy it and don't happy with the case (far to big) please sell it to me.
cheers Frank
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=016&item=260032321312
If you buy it and don't happy with the case (far to big) please sell it to me.
cheers Frank
harry01562
Registered semi-lurker
Sonnar2 said:
Good eyes Frank, that case definitely has appeal. I don't think I've seen another in my 10++ years of collecting. And a nice lens goes with it :angel:
Harry
CanonRFinder
Well-known
Article from up-coming Canon Lens book.
Article from up-coming Canon Lens book.
HI,
Below is an extract on the 28mm f/3.5 and f/2.8 lenses from my book on Canon Rangefinder Lenses. Hopefully I will be getting it under way again to complete the design layout. After completing 3/4 of the job the artist who was doing the layout decide to take of to Europe on a six month holiday. He is due back later next month. The job he has been doing on the design has been absolutely fantastic hence the delay, as I didn't want to give it to someone else to stuff it up.
Along with this article in the book is a detailed breakdown chart of each of the TYPES complete with detail photos etc.
I do have in my collection original Canon factory production figures from 1945 to 1956 on camera's and lenses but after that it becomes a bit hypothetical. I think Randol Hooper also used the same production numbers in his articles on the early lenses but like me is up in the air on others.
Use my website as a reference to the various TYPES.
http://www.canonrangefinder.servehttp.com/
28MM F/3.5 AND F/2.8 LENSES
Following the success of its two earlier wide-angle lenses, Canon released a new ultra-wide-angle lens, the SERENAR 28mm f/3.5. A remarkably small lens, it contained six elements in groups of four. Released in the beginning of October 1951, the first version of this lens was soon subjected to a change in identity.
Sometime in 1950 Canon received an order from the SCAP headquarters rescinding the previous directive that required all Japanese manufacturers to mark their export items with “Made in Occupied Japan.” This new order offered three alternatives: “Made in Occupied Japan,” “Made in Japan,” or “Japan.” A manufacturer could use any of these alternatives, as long as the marking was conspicuous on the manufactured item. Canon chose to use the last two options and from the beginning of 1952 included “Made in Japan” or “Japan” on its cameras, lenses, and accessories.
Rather than replacing the entire batch of lenses ready for delivery, Canon sent its stock back to the engravers. Some of the TYPE 1 lenses have “Japan” stamped on the outside of the aperture ring. This was the first Canon lens to have the serial numbering sequence begin at #10001. Most new lenses issued after October 1951 began their sequence with this number.
When Canon began its manufacturing at the outset of 1952, the TYPE 2 lens had “Japan” among the details on its front ID ring. It also featured a screw thread on the front ring to accommodate the new flat 34mm screw-in filters.
A small number of the late TYPE 2 lenses can be found with “US Army Signals Corps” engraved on the outside of the front rim. These lenses, along with others in different focal lengths, were made by Canon to fill a special order by the US Army. Dechert mentions that these items may have been a replacement for equipment either lost or destroyed during the conflict in Korea.[1] This theory is difficult to confirm, as all records of and references to these items have been lost or destroyed.
Late in 1952 Canon decided to replace the “SERENAR” name on all its lenses with the company’s new identity, “CANON LENS.” Although the official announcement of this change did not come until April 1953, the change was implemented in the beginning of 1953, as reflected by the TYPE 3 lens. The only other addition to this lens was a red letter “R” found on the right-hand side of the DOF scale, preceding the f/3.5 mark. This “R” indicated the position from which all infrared photography readings were calculated when using special infrared film. The <EP> mark also appeared on the aperture ring of some TYPE 3 lenses. It was located in the same position as the earlier “Japan” mark on TYPE 1 lenses. The mark can only be found on photographic equipment purchased through special US Army Duty Free stores.
When Canon officially announced the name change of its lenses in April 1953, the company simultaneously re-issued the TYPE 3 lens with an altered lens format on the front ID ring. While on the TYPE 3 lens it was designated as “f: 3.5 28mm,” on the new TYPE 4 lens it was engraved as “28mm f: 3.5.” While the TYPE 4 lens was being marketed, Canon produced a similar lens that could be mounted on either the Zeiss Ikon Contax or the Nikon Rangefinder camera. Besides having the unique Contax lens-mounting ring, it also had the notation “CT” included in the details on the front ID ring. The letters were located between the ID and the focal length markings and were usually red in colour. My records indicate that this rare lens TYPE was produced after Canon officially announced the name change. The lowest serial number I have on record is lens #10019, and the highest number is lens #10342.
When the TYPE 4 lens was still on the market Canon released two new ultra-wide-angle lenses, the 28mm f/2.8 and the 25mm f/3.5. The latter lens was the fastest ultra-wide-angle lens available at the time. The TYPE 4 lens remained on the market for three months following the new lenses’ release, before its sale was discontinued in September 1956.
Three months after the demise of the TYPE 4 lens Canon re-issued the 28mm f/3.5 lens. This black and chrome TYPE 5 lens was made from the latest lightweight alloys and was a full 30 grams lighter than its chrome-on-brass predecessors. The front ring now accepted the large 40mm screw-in filters. The information on the front ring was the same as on the TYPE 4 lens.
It is interesting to note that the serial number Canon chose to begin the sequence on this lens. I presume that they started at #20001, because in the Canon lenses brochure dated June 1958 there is a picture of lens #20002. Whether Canon ever produced the TYPE 4 lens with serial numbers in the high #19900 is not known, and I am yet to record any. The highest lens recorded to date is #19060. The 28mm f/3.5 TYPE 5 lens stayed on the market until it was withdrawn from sale in March 1960, probably due to the popularity of the faster 28mm f/2.8 TYPE 1 lens.
Canon’s first 28mm f/2.8 lens was available for sale for five years and outlasted the slower TYPE 4 and TYPE 5 28mm f/3.5 lenses. Changes were made to it in January 1961, when Canon re-released the lenses with a new ID ring. Included among the information on the front ID ring were “Lens Made in Japan” and the abbreviation “Inc.”after the company name. Other than these cosmetic changes on the front ID ring, there were no physical differences between the TYPE 1 and TYPE 2 lenses.
Due to the popularity of the later screw mount lenses and their reputation for excellent quality, Canon must have produced further stock late in 1970 and released it simultaneously with the new F-1 in January 1971. The TYPE 3 lenses were released long after Canon removed the last of its Rangefinder cameras[2] from sale in December 1968. Again, there are no physical differences between the TYPE 2 lens and the new TYPE 3 lens except for the cosmetic alterations of the front ID ring. The Canon name replaced “Canon Camera Co., Inc.,” and the notation “No” before the serial number was no longer there.
[1] Dechert, p. 104.
[2] Please refer to Model 7sZ.
Article from up-coming Canon Lens book.
HI,
Below is an extract on the 28mm f/3.5 and f/2.8 lenses from my book on Canon Rangefinder Lenses. Hopefully I will be getting it under way again to complete the design layout. After completing 3/4 of the job the artist who was doing the layout decide to take of to Europe on a six month holiday. He is due back later next month. The job he has been doing on the design has been absolutely fantastic hence the delay, as I didn't want to give it to someone else to stuff it up.
Along with this article in the book is a detailed breakdown chart of each of the TYPES complete with detail photos etc.
I do have in my collection original Canon factory production figures from 1945 to 1956 on camera's and lenses but after that it becomes a bit hypothetical. I think Randol Hooper also used the same production numbers in his articles on the early lenses but like me is up in the air on others.
Use my website as a reference to the various TYPES.
http://www.canonrangefinder.servehttp.com/
28MM F/3.5 AND F/2.8 LENSES
Following the success of its two earlier wide-angle lenses, Canon released a new ultra-wide-angle lens, the SERENAR 28mm f/3.5. A remarkably small lens, it contained six elements in groups of four. Released in the beginning of October 1951, the first version of this lens was soon subjected to a change in identity.
Sometime in 1950 Canon received an order from the SCAP headquarters rescinding the previous directive that required all Japanese manufacturers to mark their export items with “Made in Occupied Japan.” This new order offered three alternatives: “Made in Occupied Japan,” “Made in Japan,” or “Japan.” A manufacturer could use any of these alternatives, as long as the marking was conspicuous on the manufactured item. Canon chose to use the last two options and from the beginning of 1952 included “Made in Japan” or “Japan” on its cameras, lenses, and accessories.
Rather than replacing the entire batch of lenses ready for delivery, Canon sent its stock back to the engravers. Some of the TYPE 1 lenses have “Japan” stamped on the outside of the aperture ring. This was the first Canon lens to have the serial numbering sequence begin at #10001. Most new lenses issued after October 1951 began their sequence with this number.
When Canon began its manufacturing at the outset of 1952, the TYPE 2 lens had “Japan” among the details on its front ID ring. It also featured a screw thread on the front ring to accommodate the new flat 34mm screw-in filters.
A small number of the late TYPE 2 lenses can be found with “US Army Signals Corps” engraved on the outside of the front rim. These lenses, along with others in different focal lengths, were made by Canon to fill a special order by the US Army. Dechert mentions that these items may have been a replacement for equipment either lost or destroyed during the conflict in Korea.[1] This theory is difficult to confirm, as all records of and references to these items have been lost or destroyed.
Late in 1952 Canon decided to replace the “SERENAR” name on all its lenses with the company’s new identity, “CANON LENS.” Although the official announcement of this change did not come until April 1953, the change was implemented in the beginning of 1953, as reflected by the TYPE 3 lens. The only other addition to this lens was a red letter “R” found on the right-hand side of the DOF scale, preceding the f/3.5 mark. This “R” indicated the position from which all infrared photography readings were calculated when using special infrared film. The <EP> mark also appeared on the aperture ring of some TYPE 3 lenses. It was located in the same position as the earlier “Japan” mark on TYPE 1 lenses. The mark can only be found on photographic equipment purchased through special US Army Duty Free stores.
When Canon officially announced the name change of its lenses in April 1953, the company simultaneously re-issued the TYPE 3 lens with an altered lens format on the front ID ring. While on the TYPE 3 lens it was designated as “f: 3.5 28mm,” on the new TYPE 4 lens it was engraved as “28mm f: 3.5.” While the TYPE 4 lens was being marketed, Canon produced a similar lens that could be mounted on either the Zeiss Ikon Contax or the Nikon Rangefinder camera. Besides having the unique Contax lens-mounting ring, it also had the notation “CT” included in the details on the front ID ring. The letters were located between the ID and the focal length markings and were usually red in colour. My records indicate that this rare lens TYPE was produced after Canon officially announced the name change. The lowest serial number I have on record is lens #10019, and the highest number is lens #10342.
When the TYPE 4 lens was still on the market Canon released two new ultra-wide-angle lenses, the 28mm f/2.8 and the 25mm f/3.5. The latter lens was the fastest ultra-wide-angle lens available at the time. The TYPE 4 lens remained on the market for three months following the new lenses’ release, before its sale was discontinued in September 1956.
Three months after the demise of the TYPE 4 lens Canon re-issued the 28mm f/3.5 lens. This black and chrome TYPE 5 lens was made from the latest lightweight alloys and was a full 30 grams lighter than its chrome-on-brass predecessors. The front ring now accepted the large 40mm screw-in filters. The information on the front ring was the same as on the TYPE 4 lens.
It is interesting to note that the serial number Canon chose to begin the sequence on this lens. I presume that they started at #20001, because in the Canon lenses brochure dated June 1958 there is a picture of lens #20002. Whether Canon ever produced the TYPE 4 lens with serial numbers in the high #19900 is not known, and I am yet to record any. The highest lens recorded to date is #19060. The 28mm f/3.5 TYPE 5 lens stayed on the market until it was withdrawn from sale in March 1960, probably due to the popularity of the faster 28mm f/2.8 TYPE 1 lens.
Canon’s first 28mm f/2.8 lens was available for sale for five years and outlasted the slower TYPE 4 and TYPE 5 28mm f/3.5 lenses. Changes were made to it in January 1961, when Canon re-released the lenses with a new ID ring. Included among the information on the front ID ring were “Lens Made in Japan” and the abbreviation “Inc.”after the company name. Other than these cosmetic changes on the front ID ring, there were no physical differences between the TYPE 1 and TYPE 2 lenses.
Due to the popularity of the later screw mount lenses and their reputation for excellent quality, Canon must have produced further stock late in 1970 and released it simultaneously with the new F-1 in January 1971. The TYPE 3 lenses were released long after Canon removed the last of its Rangefinder cameras[2] from sale in December 1968. Again, there are no physical differences between the TYPE 2 lens and the new TYPE 3 lens except for the cosmetic alterations of the front ID ring. The Canon name replaced “Canon Camera Co., Inc.,” and the notation “No” before the serial number was no longer there.
[1] Dechert, p. 104.
[2] Please refer to Model 7sZ.
David Murphy
Veteran
Here is what I have seen: There is usually at least one Canon 28/2.8 for sale on eBay at any given time -- so it is obviously not very rare.
I've myself have owned one and taken photos with it. IMO any stock 28mm SLR lens made after about 1965 outperforms it, and something like a Canon 28mm FD lens or Pentax 28mm Super Tak blows it out of the water. On the other hand, it is certainly a very cool collectible, but it seems to have been pushing the technology envelope a little to hard for its time.
Now I shoot color slides, and perhaps with black and white the 28/2.8 is more tolerant, but I thought the contrast was weak and the images were a bit soft -- this was with it stopped down to F8-F16. My example was in good shape too, with no oil or haze.
I've also owned and used the Canon 28/3.5, and that was a lot better -- close to modern in performance and very pleasing to own and use.
I've myself have owned one and taken photos with it. IMO any stock 28mm SLR lens made after about 1965 outperforms it, and something like a Canon 28mm FD lens or Pentax 28mm Super Tak blows it out of the water. On the other hand, it is certainly a very cool collectible, but it seems to have been pushing the technology envelope a little to hard for its time.
Now I shoot color slides, and perhaps with black and white the 28/2.8 is more tolerant, but I thought the contrast was weak and the images were a bit soft -- this was with it stopped down to F8-F16. My example was in good shape too, with no oil or haze.
I've also owned and used the Canon 28/3.5, and that was a lot better -- close to modern in performance and very pleasing to own and use.
Sonnar2
Well-known
David Murphy said:
That's my experience too. It would be interesting to compare it with the modern (also small) C/V 3.5/28mm.
cheers Frank
gtramctram
camaro69
I am reading this thread with interest. I am a novice but I do appreciate the eye appeal and engineering of these lenses and cameras. I have included a few pics (digital and not very good) for you perusal. Just for fun.
You people are very enlightening to read.
Thank you
You people are very enlightening to read.
Thank you
Attachments
gtramctram
camaro69
I forgot to mention these are a few of the pieces (there are several more) that I own.
David Murphy
Veteran
Nice little setup -- it's hard not to fall in love with the Canon rangefinder system
gtramctram
camaro69
raid
Dad Photographer
David Murphy said:
I use a Canon 28mm/3.5 lens and I love it. Mine is the old and tiny metal version that is smaller than any pancake lens. I sold the 35mm/2.8 and I miss it.
Raid
sharpf8
Established
IMHO, they are not rare. I am a camera show habitue' in Southern California, and I always see them. However, there must be a reason as to why people snatch them. Last month I bought a mint Canon P from a dealer-- the 28 mm lens was already sold, by the time I had my hands on the camera.