Are Later Film SLRs Now Overlooked?

Okay -- just go my Nikon F75 in the mail today:

$9.40 (Amazon "other sellers" -- don't overlook this when gear shopping)
$5.00 shipping
____________

$14.40

Playing around with it. Now -- I haven't gotten any results back. Popped a couple CR2 batteries in -- the thing lit up. Loaded it up with Kodak BW400CN (how I miss thee! :( ). Slapped the 50/1.4 AF-D on it...

I have NOT, obviously, gotten film back -- might have an enormous light leak for all I know and it will be a little while before I get any prints back (three camera shops within walking distance from my house that developed film -- how I miss thee :( )

BUT early observations. Wow. Holy crap! What a NICE little film camera! Tiny/discreet (body is smaller than some point-n-shoots), verry light. Quiet shutter. Great Nikon matrix metering system. PSAM modes. (Scene modes if you want them). Autofocus points, DOF preview, diopter(!). Focuses with screw-drive and G-series lenses. Nikon really crammed everything but the kitchen sink into this, their last production consumer film SLR.

I must say, this is rangefinder forum (in case you haven't noticed...), and if you want the "film rangefinder experience" -- I get it. Go for it. That said, if you're looking for "bang for the buck"? This camera is the cat's pajamas. The cat's pajamas, Jerry!

1. It's not 100 years old. I have bottles of Scotch older than this camera. It will likely last a long time, trouble free. Really, this camera might "only" be 13 years old -- just getting broken in. This as opposed to something from the 50's or 60's that -- let's be real, is knocking on death's door. (Yes -- some here will argue, but nothing lasts forever...)

2. Cameras are light tight boxes. I'm of the opinion (lately) that it's a camera's feature set that, largely, adds value. Purists are welcome to their opinion. Being a later model from this century, it has all the modern features you could want. A digital display on the top panel with important NFO. Shoot aperture priorty, shutter priority, full manual, or "point-n-shoot" mode -- etc. Shoot 1.5 fps. Matrix metering, spot metering, and scene average metering etc.

3. Great ergos. Practically weightless. I LOVE plastic. Yes. That's right. Doesn't ding, dent, rust and is lighter, and brings costs down. I have zero problem with it. None. I wouldn't want a metal keyboard, metal laptop, a metal monitor, a metal deck of cards etc. The durability of metal is overrated. The durability of plastic is underrated. It's funny. People will speak glowingly of the Oly OM1. Never owned one. A fine camera, I'm sure. This camera can't be much larger (if at all) than an OM1. Can't. My guess is it's definitely lighter.

In conclusion, IF you are a pragmatist. And IF you want the most bang for your buck from a film camera. Bypass rangefinders (sorry). Bypass point-n-shooters. Get a LATE model SLR, like this one. They are much newer. They are well-made. They have a MODERN feature set. You can always "go back" and shoot in manual everything mode with a modern camera. You can not, however, force a 50 yr old vintage camera to auto focus or use advanced metering technology, etc. What about Hexars? Contax G's? If the electronics go, you're out how much? Yes -- those lenses are stellar purportedly. However, nothing wrong with primes from Canon, Minolta, Pentax, or Nikon. Plus more to choose from. Plus zooms.

Did I mention? $15 shipped? (I got a deal, admittedly... Most go for around $25...)
 
Fraser said:
Don't let the sticky back put you off its easily polished off and makes them an even bigger bargain!
18fbpicNikonf90x_01 by Fraser Bremner, on Flickr
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Thanks, that's good to know. If I need to (i.e. if my "brick outhouse" F8001s ever does turn up its toes), I would be happy to consider an F90x in that case. Though right now I do not really need another film camera of course. In some ways I wish I did but I shoot so little film these days it would be wasted on me.
 
Nothing wrong with plastic AF bodies... Got a Nikon N75 for under $30 -- not quite as good a deal as Nick, but good enough. Works with all AF lenses (AFS, G, VR) except the "E" lenses.

I just wanted a cheap film body that was compatible with my Sigma ART lenses.

Also, I happen to have a Nikon 18-55mm AFS VR II - a DX lens! Haven't shot this combo yet, but anecdotally and just looking through the viewfinder, no vignetting starting at 24mm. If this works out, it makes for a very nice lightweight combo.
 
Huss said:
There is zero charm to those sticky backed plasto cameras which is why they only appeal to people who like the idea of paying more for the batteries than the cameras.
Metal mechanical cameras have a feeling of history, permanence and quality. P&S cameras have a feeling of carefree joy.
DSLRs (disposable single lens reflex) film cameras feel like a stepping stone between "here Honey look what I bought for you" and the trash can.

No-one cares if they can take great pictures, as no-one (ok maybe 5 guys who need to get out more) likes using them.

:D
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Huss,

I pulled the plug at the end of 2017 for the US version of F80, which came with a plastic zoom for under $35.00 shipped. I figured that I could leave it at work on my desk and no one would steal it

Cleaning up the sticky back and front grip areas was major undertaking. Not only is the film door and latch made of plastic - but so is the lens mount.

Batteries and charger were half the price of the camera.

It is capable taking a decent, well metered photo - but with the 28-80mm zoom set to 50mm, f/4.5 is wide open. Life is good at f/8.

I generally use my 50 f/1.8 AF-D, which is from my digital SLR collection.

The camera looks great from across the room. It's got spot and matrix metering in addition to center weighted. It also has continuous shutter and full PSAM mode options as well. Did I mention a built-in flash, which works great for close in fill flash?

With that said - I've only run two rolls of film through it and have since plunked down triple the cost of the N80 and lens on a FE2 body. With the FE2, I'm more at home with the traditional layout of the controls and match needle metering. On paper the N80 is better camera.
 
NickTrop said:
Okay -- just go my Nikon F75 in the mail today:

$9.40 (Amazon "other sellers" -- don't overlook this when gear shopping)
$5.00 shipping
____________

$14.40

Playing around with it. Now -- I haven't gotten any results back. Popped a couple CR2 batteries in -- the thing lit up. Loaded it up with Kodak BW400CN (how I miss thee! :( ). Slapped the 50/1.4 AF-D on it...

I have NOT, obviously, gotten film back -- might have an enormous light leak for all I know and it will be a little while before I get any prints back (three camera shops within walking distance from my house that developed film -- how I miss thee :( )

BUT early observations. Wow. Holy crap! What a NICE little film camera! Tiny/discreet (body is smaller than some point-n-shoots), verry light. Quiet shutter. Great Nikon matrix metering system. PSAM modes. (Scene modes if you want them). Autofocus points, DOF preview, diopter(!). Focuses with screw-drive and G-series lenses. Nikon really crammed everything but the kitchen sink into this, their last production consumer film SLR.

I must say, this is rangefinder forum (in case you haven't noticed...), and if you want the "film rangefinder experience" -- I get it. Go for it. That said, if you're looking for "bang for the buck"? This camera is the cat's pajamas. The cat's pajamas, Jerry!

1. It's not 100 years old. I have bottles of Scotch older than this camera. It will likely last a long time, trouble free. Really, this camera might "only" be 13 years old -- just getting broken in. This as opposed to something from the 50's or 60's that -- let's be real, is knocking on death's door. (Yes -- some here will argue, but nothing lasts forever...)

2. Cameras are light tight boxes. I'm of the opinion (lately) that it's a camera's feature set that, largely, adds value. Purists are welcome to their opinion. Being a later model from this century, it has all the modern features you could want. A digital display on the top panel with important NFO. Shoot aperture priorty, shutter priority, full manual, or "point-n-shoot" mode -- etc. Shoot 1.5 fps. Matrix metering, spot metering, and scene average metering etc.

3. Great ergos. Practically weightless. I LOVE plastic. Yes. That's right. Doesn't ding, dent, rust and is lighter, and brings costs down. I have zero problem with it. None. I wouldn't want a metal keyboard, metal laptop, a metal monitor, a metal deck of cards etc. The durability of metal is overrated. The durability of plastic is underrated. It's funny. People will speak glowingly of the Oly OM1. Never owned one. A fine camera, I'm sure. This camera can't be much larger (if at all) than an OM1. Can't. My guess is it's definitely lighter.

In conclusion, IF you are a pragmatist. And IF you want the most bang for your buck from a film camera. Bypass rangefinders (sorry). Bypass point-n-shooters. Get a LATE model SLR, like this one. They are much newer. They are well-made. They have a MODERN feature set. You can always "go back" and shoot in manual everything mode with a modern camera. You can not, however, force a 50 yr old vintage camera to auto focus or use advanced metering technology, etc. What about Hexars? Contax G's? If the electronics go, you're out how much? Yes -- those lenses are stellar purportedly. However, nothing wrong with primes from Canon, Minolta, Pentax, or Nikon. Plus more to choose from. Plus zooms.

Did I mention? $15 shipped? (I got a deal, admittedly... Most go for around $25...)
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The more time you spend trying to be convincing, the less convincing it is.
There is a reason no-one wants these nasty plasticky things. They are no fun to use, unless your fun is convincing yourself how fun it is...

If we want easy, 'great' pics, 'we' just use whatever digital camera/phone is around.
If we want to immerse ourselves in the glory and creative tradition of real photography, we'll pick up something that can leave a nice dent in whatever accidentally comes into brusque contact with it.
 
Solinar said:
Nick, good luck with the camera. High-end, auto-focus, point & shoot 35mm cameras now sell for $600 and up.
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It's laughable. If I want a point-n-shoot? P mode. If I want the manual experience? M mode and turn off auto focus. Drop it? Get wet? Electronics crap out? I'm out 10 bucks.
 
Huss said:
The more time you spend trying to be convincing, the less convincing it is.
There is a reason no-one wants these nasty plasticky things. They are no fun to use, unless your fun is convincing yourself how fun it is...

If we want easy, 'great' pics, 'we' just use whatever digital camera/phone is around.
If we want to immerse ourselves in the glory and creative tradition of real photography, we'll pick up something that can leave a nice dent in whatever accidentally comes into brusque contact with it.
Click to expand...

I am pointing out why this camera is overlooked and a great value for "$10-25". I'm trying to convince no one. You, however, are "projecting".

There is nothing wrong with plastic. It's light and durable. That's why the keyboard you're typing on is made of plastic. I've had both plastic and metal cameras and lenses. I never had a plastic camera or lens "crack". I've never even seen or heard of one. I've had dinged up and rusted metal cameras. Why make something heavier than need be?

And why is it "nasty". The ergos of this camera is nearly perfect. No, they have no cachet. That's fine with me. That's why I wear Seiko and Orient automatics instead of Swiss watches. Both tell the time, both about as accurate. One costs $150. The Swiss ones cost thousands.

I have zero bias either way. Strip away nostalgia and "history" (which I care about less with cameras than watches) and the frankly irratioalities... I can care less about manufacture "pro" designations -- especially when the feature set is nearly identical.

... and what I have is a modern camrera, that has already lasted around a decade. It keeps the light out and advances the film. It gives me important information on the top plate. I control the aperture from the command dial on the camera body with my thumb and see the setting in the VF. This is a much, much better system than having to do it blindly or stop what I'm doing to look at the lens barrel.

In terns of camera bodies -- they benefited much from modern electronics. From a purely practical standpoint they are simply better camera bodies. They have more useful features. They are smaller and lighter. They cost way less.

And they keep the light out.
And they advance the film.

Technology made cameras better and cheaper. Not worse or more expensive.

And I reiterate. These cameras are underappreciated. They are more useful photographic tools than the overrated and dare I say long obsolete "classics". I can do anything a manual camera can do. I can do anything a point-n-shoot can do. But if I want to shoot 1.5 fps -- I can. I have matrix metering. Spot metering. Scene average metering. I can shoot in shutter priority, aperture priority -- not stuck with either or. I have an accurate electronic shutter that can go from 30 seconds to 1/2000th. Again. Accurate. Not off by stops.

It's way lighter than an Olympus OM1, It's not as long. It's only taller because it has a built in flash. It's slightly wider because it has a photographically useful and ergonomically better grip.

And it costs 10 bucks. And they're much newer.

Such cameras are undervalued for precisely the biases you expressed, which are emotional appeals not logical ones. In terms of camera bodies - they're just better.

But shhhhh! Don't tell anyone.
 
As I said in an earlier post I now have 4 N75's. With a 50/1.8 AF lens it is a very capable & light P&S camera and is suitable for more serious 35mm photography.
I use mine for travel and casual stuff.

Thanks NickTrop for mentioning it again.
 
NickTrop said:
I am pointing out why this camera is overlooked and a great value for "$10-25". I'm trying to convince no one. You, however, are "projecting".

There is nothing wrong with plastic. It's light and durable. That's why the keyboard you're typing on is made of plastic. I've had both plastic and metal cameras and lenses. I never had a plastic camera or lens "crack". I've never even seen or heard of one. I've had dinged up and rusted metal cameras. Why make something heavier than need be?

And why is it "nasty". The ergos of this camera is nearly perfect. No, they have no cachet. That's fine with me. That's why I wear Seiko and Orient automatics instead of Swiss watches. Both tell the time, both about as accurate. One costs $150. The Swiss ones cost thousands.

I have zero bias either way. Strip away nostalgia and "history" (which I care about less with cameras than watches) and the frankly irratioalities... I can care less about manufacture "pro" designations -- especially when the feature set is nearly identical.

... and what I have is a modern camrera, that has already lasted around a decade. It keeps the light out and advances the film. It gives me important information on the top plate. I control the aperture from the command dial on the camera body with my thumb and see the setting in the VF. This is a much, much better system than having to do it blindly or stop what I'm doing to look at the lens barrel.

In terns of camera bodies -- they benefited much from modern electronics. From a purely practical standpoint they are simply better camera bodies. They have more useful features. They are smaller and lighter. They cost way less.

And they keep the light out.
And they advance the film.

Technology made cameras better and cheaper. Not worse or more expensive.

And I reiterate. These cameras are underappreciated. They are more useful photographic tools than the overrated and dare I say long obsolete "classics". I can do anything a manual camera can do. I can do anything a point-n-shoot can do. But if I want to shoot 1.5 fps -- I can. I have matrix metering. Spot metering. Scene average metering. I can shoot in shutter priority, aperture priority -- not stuck with either or. I have an accurate electronic shutter that can go from 30 seconds to 1/2000th. Again. Accurate. Not off by stops.

It's way lighter than an Olympus OM1, It's not as long. It's only taller because it has a built in flash. It's slightly wider because it has a photographically useful and ergonomically better grip.

And it costs 10 bucks. And they're much newer.

Such cameras are undervalued for precisely the biases you expressed, which are emotional appeals not logical ones. In terms of camera bodies - they're just better.

But shhhhh! Don't tell anyone.
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It's nice you like something no-one else does.
(and yes, 3 codgers in anoraks on this site counts as no-one).
:D
 
I think the idea of "maintainable" varies with what an individual is trained to do. I find camera mechanics and optics to be very maintainable, but two of my colleagues are electrical engineers, and they find it trivial to diagnose electrical faults that challenge me, but the mechanics and optics challenge them.


As for film SLR's of the late Nineties and early Naughties, for the last year I've been really enjoying the Olympus IS-1dlx. I have no idea how long it will last, but it works really well for now, electric micro-motors and electronic wizardry considered. My Leica M3 will likely run for decades, or even centuries, with infrequent maintenance. My EOS Elan IIe also seems to be holding up, as does the EOS 650 I bought last year. Who knows how long the electronics will last, but they're fun while they last.


Scott
 
NickTrop said:
...

I control the aperture from the command dial on the camera body with my thumb and see the setting in the VF. This is a much, much better system than having to do it blindly or stop what I'm doing to look at the lens barrel.

...

From a purely practical standpoint they are simply better camera bodies.

...

Technology made cameras better and cheaper. Not worse or more expensive.

...

In terms of camera bodies - they're just better.

...
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Yeeeeeah, I think we'll have to agree that 'better' is highly subjective in this case...
 
Not a superwhizbang SLR, but my Dad's Pentax ME from the late '70s is still chugging along nicely. It seems to need new light seals, but apart from that, exposure is good, the viewfinder is clear, and it looks as good as the day it was bought. With the 50mm f1.4 and 28mm f2.8 SMC Pentax-M lenses I can do 90% of the film photography I want, assuming I don't need stealth (that shutter sound is like a gunshot). Do I really need motor drive, autofocus, and all that jazz in a film SLR?


The only problem is that prices are starting to get weird. Good copies are selling in Australia for a few hundred dollars, which is pretty expensive for a camera made in the 70s. Plastic fantastics of the 90s and very early 2000s might be a good bet, but they won't feel or look like the ME.
 
nickthetasmaniac said:
Alternatively, it has all the modern features I don't want, and shoot mechanical film cameras to avoid :)
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This I don't understand. What features does this camera force you to use? If you want the manual experience, you can avoid these features be turning them off. Viola. A manual camera. I can turn this into a manual camera by setting the dial to "M" and flicking the AF switch.
 
Huss said:
It's nice you like something no-one else does.
(and yes, 3 codgers in anoraks on this site counts as no-one).
:D
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No one else likes them for reasons that are totally irrational. No one "liked" the Yashica T4. You could have gotten then for peanuts -- until Terry Richardson started using them. Now they go for $100's used.

I say they are actually better than the classic cameras of yore. Decades of R&D went into their design.

You might "like" a '67 Impala. You might think it has certain charms. "Look cool". But a 2005 Camry is a better car.
 
Archiver said:
Not a superwhizbang SLR, but my Dad's Pentax ME from the late '70s is still chugging along nicely. It seems to need new light seals, but apart from that, exposure is good, the viewfinder is clear, and it looks as good as the day it was bought. With the 50mm f1.4 and 28mm f2.8 SMC Pentax-M lenses I can do 90% of the film photography I want, assuming I don't need stealth (that shutter sound is like a gunshot). Do I really need motor drive, autofocus, and all that jazz in a film SLR?


The only problem is that prices are starting to get weird. Good copies are selling in Australia for a few hundred dollars, which is pretty expensive for a camera made in the 70s. Plastic fantastics of the 90s and very early 2000s might be a good bet, but they won't feel or look like the ME.
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1. If a camera has autofocus I use it, except in instances where I can't. Then I manual focus, which is very rare. Your car doesn't need air conditioning. But it's sure nice to have. I can used auto focus or turn it off. It is a useful feature because it focuses faster than you can typically focus manually. It rarely misses.

2. No you don't "need" these extra features. But most of them help you take better pictures, set things more quickly, and avoid errors.

3. Manual focus cameras are essentially shutter priority cameras. More on that in a separate post.
 
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