Are rangefinders suitable for beginners?

[40oz]

A simple question deserves a simple answer.

Yes, a rangefinder is fine for a beginner. Anyone who suggests otherwise is being foolish.

If you were asking about motorcycles, I wouldn't suggest a liter bike. If you were asking about cars, I wouldn't suggest a powerful RWD V8 sports car.

But we are talking about cameras. There is no harm in a rangefinder. A manual focus, manual exposure camera is probably the best camera for a beginner who is asking "what is a good beginner camera?" And a rangefinder is as good as an SLR when it comes to using. They are different, but there is no good or bad in "different." I'm not the only one who started using an SLR and grew to prefer rangefinders. I wouldn't have suffered for skipping the time with an SLR. I certainly carry my RF more places and took more pictures than my SLR, simply due to size and weight.

So yes, a rangefinder is an excellent choice for a beginner.

And why would someone not be OK with film? You can get it developed and scanned anywhere in an hour. "Instant" feedback is over-rated in a camera. When you remove a penalty for mistakes in a learning situation, you remove the innate motivation to learn.

 

[shyoon]

I think rangefinders are definately suitable for a beginner. I should know, I am one! I decided on a whim to start off with film rangefinders, specifically an Olympus 35SP, due to the low cost, small size and it's well designed mechanical engineering. You definately face a steeper learning curve with an old film rangefinder, of course, but I felt it's the best way to understand all the fundamentals of photography. Sure, I've had times where I wanted to just pack it all in and just buy a DSLR for the convenience, but looking at the progress I've made over the past year, I feel it's all worth it.

 

[bo_lorentzen]

Rangefinders are excellent for beginners.

My favorite high-shool teacher forced me to learn on a olympus rangefinder sometime at the end of the seventies, I hated the camera and wanted to use cool SLR's with auto metering etc. he insisted we learn the relationship between aperture and shutterspeeds, and how to frame a image. I can never thank him enough for his efforts.


Bo

www.bophoto.typepad.com

 

[BillBingham2]

dwr, Welcome to one of the best places on the web to learn and hang out.

One of the things that scream out to teaching side of me dwr is in your second post that you kept going back to auto as it was there. There is one alternative, some what messy but here goes. Pick up a Nikon D60 and get a spilt image focusing screen for it. Pick up two old Nikkor lenses, a 24/2.8 and a 85/1.8. The lens need not be AIed or adapted as your camera will have no way of communicating them without you putting a lot of money into them, which you do not need to.

You will also need to get a hand held light meter (sekonic 318 is my favorite). You will adjust the shutter speed and aperture based upon what the meter tells you to. Eventually you can get good a guessing exposures without it if you want to practice. You can use what is called a Histogram on the LCD of the D60 to see if you have the exposure right.

Use manual shutter speed as you will need to your lens does not communicate with the camera and auto anything will be lost.

RF vs SLR IMHO is 6 of one, half dozen of another, the key for you is making you learn what the controls do and not giving you an out. You can get manual focus glass that is "Chipped" for providing the information from the lens back to the camera from Cosina in their SL II line of lenses. They are great glass and well built (lots of good metal).

I like digital as the cost of shooting lots of frames is very low compared to film. The best thing I can say to you, be it SLR or RF is shoot. Look at every frame, see how it can be better and do this all the time. The key is shooting and reviewing. Shooting without the review part will not teach you anything and I think that is a major part of what you are up to.

You can learn photography by plunking down big bucks for a RF camera but with a little thought you can get there for a lot less with a fine camera somewhat repurposed from what the original designers though of.

If you are stuck on RF as the only way, pick up a Bessa R and any 35mm CV lens, it's a great place to start if you MUST to film. Another option is a Bessa L with a viewfinder and a 25/4 CV lens. No range finder but a great camera for simple fun learning, especially street or party photography.

Hope this helps.

B2 (;->

 

[dwr]

I was seriously considering Canonet till I found out that it cannot meter in manual (can't believe it). So right now the choices are: Olympus 35 SP, Yashica Lynx 5000/14, Konica Auto S2 and Minolta Hi Matic 7/S. They all fall roughly in the same price range here in Taiwan - somewhere between US80-120 (oh the 35 SP is a lot more expensive at US160) -, I don't know why they are so cheap on ebay (like less than half the price here), but I think for the moment I'll just get one from the shops where I can actually touch it before I buy it.

And Bill, that's a good advice you're giving, a bit more gear to carry around though, but I'll give it a thought.

 

[mark-b]

Yes. I can imagine if i started out with a rangefinder instead of an slr, it would be like 2nd nature right now. i'm still quick with an slr to this day.

 

[nome_alice]

given that my M4-P with a lens on it has a total sum of 5 controls (focus ring, aperture ring, shutter speed dial, shutter button, film advance lever) i'd say it's perfect for any beginner wishing to grasp the fundamentals of picture making.

 

[Keith]

given that my M4-P with a lens on it has a total sum of 5 controls (focus ring, aperture ring, shutter speed dial, shutter button, film advance lever) i'd say it's perfect for any beginner wishing to grasp the fundamentals of picture making.

Add a nice simple to use match needle meter and you have an OM-1! 😀

I think RF's are suitable for a beginner but not necessarily ideal ... a simple basic SLR is the perfect starting vehicle IMO.

 

[btgc]

a simple basic SLR is the perfect starting vehicle IMO.

evil aspect of "what if I buy another lens" requires student to manifest strong will. So basic SLR is a tool not only to learn photography but also to develop personal qualities.

 

[denmark.yuzon]

Add a nice simple to use match needle meter and you have an OM-1! 😀

I think RF's are suitable for a beginner but not necessarily ideal ... a simple basic SLR is the perfect starting vehicle IMO.

i agree with this.. i started out using my FM2n and my father's minolta X700.. until i wanted to go beyond it and explore the world of RF..

but, i wonder, what cant i do with my SLR that i can do with an RF? i feel they are both the same.. they are both boxes with shutterspeeds and both have lenses.. sometimes i wonder why i would lust for an RF when what i have is perfectly good camera? hmm..

 

[btgc]

sometimes i wonder why i would lust for an RF when what i have is perfectly good camera? hmm..

don't know about bulky system RF's, though with small bodied FL RF's there certainly is difference from small SLR body, with small prime or even pancake.

Lack of pentaprism box on top? Near silent operation? Face, not covered by camera? I'm not talking about being stealthy (another myth), just some feeling of lightness.

 

[dwr]

Lack of pentaprism box on top? Near silent operation? Face, not covered by camera? I'm not talking about being stealthy (another myth), just some feeling of lightness.

Man, that's exactly what got me interested in rangefinders in the first place, despite that the ones I'm looking at right ow are a bit bulky (Yashica Lynx 5000/14, Konica Auto S2 and Minolta Hi-Matic 7/s).

 

[btgc]

dwr, all cameras you mentioned, have their charm.

- Lynx 5000 - proper size and appealing shape (not a brick like most FL RF's), supersmooth release button
- Lynx 14 - similar shape as model 5000, weight works as built-in OIS, release button...uh, lens itself.
- KAS2 - superb VF, very good lens. Release button too stiff, because of AE mechanism (my workaround is to use release attachment).
Hi-matic 7 and 7s - haven't used, though should be V.G. Minolta glass, can be trickier to get working, maybe.

Lately I've gravitated towards smaller RF and scale-focus cameras for everyday use. Size, ergonomics (which are subjective figures) finally make me connected to this or that camera. Maybe consider getting one small and one feature-based camera and see what works for you.

 

[nome_alice]

Add a nice simple to use match needle meter and you have an OM-1! 😀

Don't need to add anything. i already have a couple of OM-1's. absolutely love them, they're not bad for an slr 😉

 

[Spyderman]

I was seriously considering Canonet till I found out that it cannot meter in manual (can't believe it). So right now the choices are: Olympus 35 SP, Yashica Lynx 5000/14, Konica Auto S2 and Minolta Hi Matic 7/S. They all fall roughly in the same price range here in Taiwan - somewhere between US80-120 (oh the 35 SP is a lot more expensive at US160) -, I don't know why they are so cheap on ebay (like less than half the price here), but I think for the moment I'll just get one from the shops where I can actually touch it before I buy it.

Dear dwr,

I wouldn't dismiss Canonet because of the metering. The difference in actual use is, that to get light reading you switch to A mode, then set the recommended f-stop on the lens barrel, and until lighting conditions significantly change, you can use the same etting, without being bothered by some needle moving in the VF and telling you to use different f-stop.

Negative flm has lots of latitude, meaning that you needn't re-meter for every photo. It frees yoo from thinking about exposure all the time and lets you concentrate on composition while you're in more or less identical lighting conditions.

Also don't forget the Oly 35 SP doesn't have automatic paralax correction (The VF framelines don't move as you focus)

Canonet has been my first RF. It is the camera that got me into RF after using Canon EOS film SLRs. Now that I look back, I think I only learned anything about photography with the Canonet. I would use only automatic mode and zoom lens on the EOS. Canonet made me think about exposure and use my feet to get the desired composition.

I say: go for it! Get a reasonably priced fixed lens RF and learn photography.

 

[ChrisPlatt]

My recommendation is for something with a built-in meter but no AE,
to facilitate learning proper exposure and the effect of shutter speed and aperture.
The Pentax K1000 (SLR) comes to mind first, but there are rangefinders (and other SLRs) that will fill the bill.

Chris

 

[Ronald M]

My first was a RF, Waltz Envoy with 50 2.0 Nippon Kogagu lens. I probably misspelled that. Circa 1958.

I learned interchangeable lenses are important. I learmed to meter with a Weston Master 4. I learned not to buy Tiffin laminated filters, and they are all laminated gels. They delaminated, all 8 of them. I keep them as a reminder. I learned to love Kodachrome 25, plus X Pan, Microdol X 1:3, I learned how to make enlargements and set up a darkroom.

Today I would tell people to start with a consumer grade dslr because of the instant feedback. The rest of the skills can be learned later.

Maybe a Nikon D3000 and 35 1.8 or the 17/55 zoom being a second choice.
Learn to work a lens, not zoom.

You can learn metering, composition, lighting and timing easier with the quick feedback. Add lenses as you learn what you need. You can perfect basic darkroom work on a digi file.

RF are film except for a few exotics you can`t afford. Film is semi pleantiful now, but things will get tight.

read this carefully. Film is home darkroom unless you can afford custom lab work to get pro results. read the previous sentence again. I mean it.
My first darkroom was a college one or my mother`s laundry/furnace room.
Wasn`t pretty, but I made some nice prints.

 

[snausages]

Whatever camera you have a desire to use is suitable. I don't think there are any caveats.

 

[FS Vontz]

It's not complicated. Buy a cheap one to see if you like it. Although it would be best to know about aperture and shutter speeds and all that first, because many are completely manual, or mostly manual.

 

[dwr]

Been away from home so don't have that much access to the internet these couple of days, but last Saturday I bought a Minolta Hi-Matic 7S. Been kinda tired of looking at multitude of models and not making up my mind, so when a secondhand camera dealer ranged I just went.

I'm still in the first roll, wasted about half of it trying to figure out the metering system (thank god it was given to me by my sister because they don't shoot film anymore, and it's expired years ago anyway), and now think I'm ready to seriously experiment with it.

The meter, however, shows that it's underexposed most of the time, don't know if my shooting indoors has something to do with it, I'll try it in the open air to see how that goes. Anyway, thanks for the input guys, it's been of great help, I really appreciate that.