back alley
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lots of m8s on the market, here and elsewhere...also rd1s too.
harder to sell these days?
harder to sell these days?
swoop
Well-known
Just everyone purging at the same time in anticipation of moving to the next model up.
Vickko
Veteran
I think the same for R6.2 and R9 cameras. I'm guessing on drops in film M prices too.
And watch the plummet in R lens prices in the 28mm to 135mm range, where they overlap the M range. Most of the M lenses are smaller and better than their R counterparts.
But I predict big increases in M lens prices, and in the R lenses outside of the M focal lengths.
And watch the plummet in R lens prices in the 28mm to 135mm range, where they overlap the M range. Most of the M lenses are smaller and better than their R counterparts.
But I predict big increases in M lens prices, and in the R lenses outside of the M focal lengths.
Eric T
Well-known
The recently announced Leicas make themselves a hard sell.
raid
Dad Photographer
I bought the M8 and the M9 for the long run. I will not even think of any new cameras.
Dante_Stella
Rex canum cattorumque
No. Retail pricing has been about flat since spring. If you check closed Ebay transaction prices (in which cameras actually sell), as well as KEH, B&H and Adorama (all of whom have no problem selling their stock without discounts), you'll see that an M8 still sells from 1,950 to 2,300. Completed Ebay transactions are very reliable, and you can bet that sophisticated, high-volume used camera dealers price items to sell - and sell them.
I don't think you can extrapolate from RFF that anything is a hard sell, except to the RFF market, and here's why:
1. Many buyers, particularly bargain shoppers, are discounting the value of the camera by what they believe is a 100% likelihood of a major failure requiring an expensive repair (problems, no doubt emphasized by the fact that RFF itself devotes an entire section to Leica M malfunctions). If such a buyer believes that a sensor will fail, then he will mentally deduct $1,500 from the price. Sellers can lower their prices as much as they want, but it would be hard to capture these buyers.
2. Typical RFF sellers don't provide periodic warranties (and their transactions cannot be covered by third-party warranties). So buyers are skittish. Dealers do not have this problem and can spread the risk of one camera failing over hundreds of transactions. Further, RFF sellers want to be out from under equipment. They do not want to be guarantors of performance - particularly in a setting where a buyer might purchase the camera, use and/or abuse it, and then return it in worse shape (this seems peculiar to digital cameras, which have shot counters). So even if a buyer does not fit into the "it will fail" set, he will still discount the price from what he would pay a KEH item with a 6-month, usually cashing-you-out, type of warranty.
3. RFF has no dispute resolution mechanism other than the underlying Paypal transaction.
Then, of course, you have the drumbeats and wishful thinking of the people who can't afford a particular camera. They collect anecdotal evidence (or hear) that camera X is selling for Y dollars (some improbably low figure, sometimes based on an aborted Ebay auction or something that is in grievously bad shape) and then all of a sudden that is the "market value." In fact, even in a survey of market price, that would be an outlier offer that you would throw out.
Dante
I don't think you can extrapolate from RFF that anything is a hard sell, except to the RFF market, and here's why:
1. Many buyers, particularly bargain shoppers, are discounting the value of the camera by what they believe is a 100% likelihood of a major failure requiring an expensive repair (problems, no doubt emphasized by the fact that RFF itself devotes an entire section to Leica M malfunctions). If such a buyer believes that a sensor will fail, then he will mentally deduct $1,500 from the price. Sellers can lower their prices as much as they want, but it would be hard to capture these buyers.
2. Typical RFF sellers don't provide periodic warranties (and their transactions cannot be covered by third-party warranties). So buyers are skittish. Dealers do not have this problem and can spread the risk of one camera failing over hundreds of transactions. Further, RFF sellers want to be out from under equipment. They do not want to be guarantors of performance - particularly in a setting where a buyer might purchase the camera, use and/or abuse it, and then return it in worse shape (this seems peculiar to digital cameras, which have shot counters). So even if a buyer does not fit into the "it will fail" set, he will still discount the price from what he would pay a KEH item with a 6-month, usually cashing-you-out, type of warranty.
3. RFF has no dispute resolution mechanism other than the underlying Paypal transaction.
Then, of course, you have the drumbeats and wishful thinking of the people who can't afford a particular camera. They collect anecdotal evidence (or hear) that camera X is selling for Y dollars (some improbably low figure, sometimes based on an aborted Ebay auction or something that is in grievously bad shape) and then all of a sudden that is the "market value." In fact, even in a survey of market price, that would be an outlier offer that you would throw out.
Dante
Calzone
Gear Whore #1
I think Vic speaks wisdom here. The slow season for lens prices is behind us. With the release of the "M," ME and Monochrome M-mount pricing can only go up.
I'm speculating on the price increases on glass, buying a Monochrome on Zero APR credit, and thinking that I can always sell glass later... if I have to. I figure the longer I wait the better the prices (for me the seller).
I will keep all my Leica film bodies, because I will still shoot lots of film, and because the market for film bodies will be soft because of excess supply due to the scramble to raise funds to buy a new digital M.
Cal