Are the tank reels necessary for developing film?

Reels are like everything else, you get what your money pays for.

The best reels are the Kindermann metal ones.

Metal always wins over plastic in terms of durability and ability to get used and cleaned without crackling/brittling.
 
Metal always wins over plastic in terms of durability and ability to get used and cleaned without crackling/brittling.

But looses when dropped and becomes imperceptibly "bent" leading to loading problems.
If one type was perfect then only that type would still be in use. Both are valid and have their fans.

Can I also caution on the dipping technique? Whilst it is useful for say 120 developing by inspection, a full length 35 exp is a trial and leads to difficulty in repetition of technique across films.

For the record I have some Patterson reels that aren't marked as such and when mixed in the dark with the reel thing :angel: are easily identified as they are a pain to load whilst visually being identical. Confirming, you get what you pay for 😎
 
Now my question... are the reels necessary at all? When taking the film from its 35mm cannister the film unwinds by itself very nicely.

The reels are not required for unwinding - indeed, I've only ever seen one system that directly used a reel (with base and crank) to pull the film from the canister. Reels are used as you must have something in a small tank that keeps the film windings separated and in contact with the chemistry - reels are the most common solution, but there also have been tanks employing curled plastic tape rolled up alternately with the film (e.g. Agfa tanks) or a corkscrew shaped core (Minox tank).

And then there is the world of big tanks (once standard in professional labs), where the film is attached to a stainless steel frame (a gizmo looking much like a fancy clothes hanger) and hung into a (at least waist-high) deep tank. But unless you manage to get through something upward of 100 films a week big tanks are no economic option - and you can't use any of the currently popular one-shot developers there either.

If you feel steel spirals hard to load, you might consider a switch to plastic - but be warned, these generally start easier but they are prone to wear and will eventually grow harder to load than any steel spiral...
 
...
That being said, can I use the Paterson plastic reel in my metal tank? I kind of like that it's metal.

Nope.

The plastic reels are too large in diameter to fit in a metal tank. Get the whole set of plastic reels and tank.




I would also suggest putting a couple more rolls through your Adorama reels. Either that or sell them reel cheap in the Classifieds here (so I can buy them for next to nothing! - j/k. I have plenty of reels.) I use the cheapest reels, and after a few flubs, you learn to feel for it, and learn to correct it. My second best reel is Prinz, others came from Spiratone, and my very best reel is a no-name I picked up in a long-defunct mom-and-pop store for $3 in like ... '85 BC or something.

I got frames sticking, but learned how not to quickly. My problem with plastic reels is that I cannot feel the film as it loads, and so I can't control how it feeds onto the spiral as well as I can with metal reels.
 
I've been using plastic and steel reels for over 30 years, never had problems. It is true that steel are a little more difficult to load 120 film but not 35 mm.
One advice, especially with plastic reels, make sure the reels are perfectly DRY as even with some moisture the film gets stuck into the grooves.
 
I actually don't care if it is steel or plastic. The end result is the only thing that matters. I learned way before plastic was available, since I can now do it in my sleep never used plastic ones.

Steel reels even new can come dent/warped. Plastic reels can crack... There is nothing special about either. Use what u are comfortable with. The only steel reel I hate is the old kinderman I learned on when I was in high school back in the late 60s.

Gary

Learned on a steel reel in the 60s, before plastic? I remember my father teaching me how to use a plastic tank in the late 40s or very early 50s. You didn't invert it, but spun the reel with a knob on top.

...

That being said, can I use the Paterson plastic reel in my metal tank? I kind of like that it's metal.

Already answered, but no.

...

I got frames sticking, but learned how not to quickly. My problem with plastic reels is that I cannot feel the film as it loads, and so I can't control how it feeds onto the spiral as well as I can with metal reels.

That is what I prefer about steel reels. For the OP, learn how to push and pull the film as you rotate the reel while keeping the film slightly curled from the edges. That push-pull lets you know the film is in in the grooves, not touching itself anywhere. If you can't feel that, you need to check. It's not a big movement, but there and you can feel it.

Don't become too discouraged when learning how to do this. It takes time, patience, and practice. Nobody I know of was born with a stainless steel reel and a roll of film in their little hands.

Do try plastic if you can. I did, but didn't like them because I couldn't reuse the right away. But some people find them easier, and good for them. Why suffer with a method you don't like and doesn't work well for you.
 
I learned how to load film on plastic and steel reels 60 years ago. I prefer steel but you have to get first class steel reels. Neither types of loading are particularly easy to learn. You can put your developer in a pot and "dip and dunk" -- that is, pull on one end of the film and then pull on the other end, thus running the loop in the film through the developer until you think you have it right and then do the same with wash and hypo. But this is a real hassle.
People make all sorts of "lasagna" reels and reel aprons to help you load the reels but I think learning to use the plain steel reels is the only way to go. Others may beg to differ.
 
I've used all kinds of plastic and steel reels and prefer steel reels and tanks, mainly for temperature control purposes.

The key is clipping the film in centered and straight. After you shove the film into the clip you can run a finger on the hand holding the reel along the width of the film to feel if it's centered. Once centered, when you start to roll the reel to wind the film on you will know right away if it's crimping; if so, it's not clipped in straight. Go back and straighten it. Once it's centered and straight it will zip right onto the reel. I ususally check it's going on correctly every few turns by feeling if the film wound on the reel is "round". If it's not, it's not going on the roll properly.
 
As other have told you reels are necessary if you use a common tank but I once heard somebody telling me he believed tanks and reels give uneven development (he was a large format user) and used a homemade long tank made from a sewer PVC pipe measuring something like two yards or so in length (I think he didn't use that long because his only "small format" was 120 film), then he would hang the film perfectly straight using two clips fitted with rubber bands and use several gallons of chemical in complete darkness, but I think it is overcomplicated and really not necessary. Yes, you need to practice with the reel...

GLF
 
Are the tank reels necessary for developing film?

My colleague one of the previous jobs was with natural resources research company.
Here in Canada.
He was flying on helicopter with pilot and measure the earth surface with different frequencies by transmitter-receiver on the ropes beneath the chopper.
One of the part of his job routine was to develop few hundreds meters of b/w film, taken as evidence what they were actually flying.
Every, or so, evening, he would fill-in bathtub in his room with water. Put into it one basket of developer and another basket with fixer. Then he would sit in front of the bathtub and process hundreds of meters of film. His assistance behind the door was timing the process.
I asked my colleague how did you dry hundreds of meters of film.
He told me - I roll them down at hotel corridors or in the lobby if hotel was small.
It was 135 film. He used it to take regular pictures with his camera. I scanned few of them earlier this year.
 
from an essay by Tod Papageorge on photographer, Robert Adams...

"Adams worked from a suburban tract house in Longmont, a Denver suburb, where he had fashioned a small, unventilated darkroom in a spare bedroom. To develop the nearly five hundred rolls of film he exposed through his two years of photographing on this project, he employed a routine he had established while working on The New West. It involved the use of shallow custom-made trays and required that Adams make a loop of a single roll of film by taping its ends together and then manipulating it through several trays of photographic chemistry, all in pitch blackness. This procedure, requiring thirty-five to forty minutes start to finish, was more time-consuming (and finical) than that undertaken by beginning photography students developing their first negatives in plastic tanks, and considerably more so than that employed by experienced photographers developing, in larger tanks, up to four rolls of the same type of film, or even eighteen, in another, trickier procedure employing yet another kind of tank and steel racks. But for Adams, this painstaking process was essential, because, more than any other technique he knew, it promised that his negatives would have smooth, unmottled development, allowing the sky areas of his bright prints to appear seamless as they burned away at the high end of the photographic tonal scale toward absolute, paper white."
 
If you dont use reels, your film will most likely stick together due to adhesion. This is more serious than it sounds, some areas of film might not get i contact with dev or fix at all!
Have a look at this beautiful view over Paris 😀
K88_ARS_PRO400_TET_2-12.jpg

cheers
seb
 
Learned on a steel reel in the 60s, before plastic? I remember my father teaching me how to use a plastic tank in the late 40s or very early 50s.

I actually did not c my first 35mm plastic tank until early 70s or so.. Never knew they made 35mm developing tanks in plastic before that.. But yeah, when I said that, I was thinking of the completely enclosed, ones that u an invert. I have never seen the one like u mentioned that had the crank.

Thanks for the new info
Gary
 
I've been using plastic and steel reels for over 30 years, never had problems. It is true that steel are a little more difficult to load 120 film but not 35 mm.
One advice, especially with plastic reels, make sure the reels are perfectly DRY as even with some moisture the film gets stuck into the grooves.

Maybe because I do so much more 120 then 35, I actually can load 120 faster.. W/ 35, at least one roll out of so many, I need to back track it, when I feel the edges not right. W/ 120, it is rare that I need to do that.

Gary
 
As other have told you reels are necessary if you use a common tank but I once heard somebody telling me he believed tanks and reels give uneven development (he was a large format user) and used a homemade long tank made from a sewer PVC pipe measuring something like two yards or so in length (I think he didn't use that long because his only "small format" was 120 film), then he would hang the film perfectly straight using two clips fitted with rubber bands and use several gallons of chemical in complete darkness, but I think it is overcomplicated and really not necessary. Yes, you need to practice with the reel...

GLF

For large format, u can use a 4 banger (four 35mm reel) tank and use the tortilla method.. Basically think of your LF neg bent like a tortilla, the emulsion side in.. Depending on plastic or steel tank can get from 3 to 4 4x5 negatives in it.

Have heard of various PVC like methods in the ast as well, but I am not sure I understand what he actually did, given complete darkness and gallons of chemistry. Sounds like tray method would have been just as good. The PVC methods I have heard about, put developer in and the ends closed.. Once the developer phase is done, u go dark to until a portion of the fixer phase is complete.

The tortilla method using normal 35mm tanks is what I use since I don't do enough 4x5 to warant anything more..

Gary
 
For large format, u can use a 4 banger (four 35mm reel) tank and use the tortilla method.. Basically think of your LF neg bent like a tortilla, the emulsion side in.. Depending on plastic or steel tank can get from 3 to 4 4x5 negatives in it.

Have heard of various PVC like methods in the ast as well, but I am not sure I understand what he actually did, given complete darkness and gallons of chemistry. Sounds like tray method would have been just as good. The PVC methods I have heard about, put developer in and the ends closed.. Once the developer phase is done, u go dark to until a portion of the fixer phase is complete.

The tortilla method using normal 35mm tanks is what I use since I don't do enough 4x5 to warant anything more..

Gary

No no, I don't need to use anything, I am happy with tanks and when I shot large format (not too often these days but I still have a monorail used mostly as a piece of conversation since it now sits in the living room) I use simply trays and a metronome to measure time (it's almost a Zen exercise to sit in complete darkness counting seconds for some 10'). The guy I am telling about was an obsessed large format shooter who didn't want to roll anything, not even rolls of 120 films so he would put them into a large pipe completely straight (yep, now that I make some easy computation that might have been more one yard than two what he needed, I saw once the hardware never even thought to actually use it) hanging from two clips and kept in tension by rubber bands or something of that sort. Since both ends were closed by DIY caps he needed to open the whole stuff in total darkness, at least for the moments in which he needed to pour the liquids inside. Never mind,
it was a stupid remark nitpicking the "you need reels" statement, in reality I believe all normal persons use reels and I don't think I saw any roll of film which seemed to have been developed unevenly in a tank by a trained person, if a film is not properly developed it is the person doing the job who is to be blamed, not the tank or the reel.

GLF
 
To echo what others have said...take the oldest, crappiest roll of film in your stash, sacrifice the film, and get comfortable on your couch with a reel and your favorite TV show. And practice loading film until you can watch TV and load film without looking at your hands. Then practice some more.

Personally, I've always been more comfortable with plastic reels because it's what I learned on in the 90s. I'm currently using and loving the Adorama Ultra Universal Plastic Developing Tank but have also had excellent results with the Freestle Arista tank. I prefer plastic because I'm clumsy and have bent metal reels due to dropping. One thing to be aware of with these plastic tanks is to make sure you give the reels a thorough rinsing (crap can build up on the inside edges of the plastic reels if you aren't careful about putting your reels/tank away clean).

What works best for you boils down to personal preference, and more importantly, muscle memory. What I'm seeing here is that other users are mentioning a preference for either metal or plastic based on what they are most familiar with but that's the point: You've got to become very, very familiar with what you're doing first.

Practice makes perfect; it also lets you get better at getting your film out of the cassettes, handling your film by the edges, and getting it onto the reel and into the tank faster and with minimal contact from your fingers, which can leave oils or other undesirable stuff on your negs.

Spend 5-10 min every couple of days practicing and it should become like second nature rather quickly.
 
Back
Top Bottom