aleksanderpolo
Established
Would a hotshoe mounted dumb OVF works for you?
dfatty
Well-known
I believe it's the J1 that doesn't have a viewfinder. The V1 has an EVF standard. I've read good things about the V1 especially the speed of autofocus. A friend has one and likes it.
mkvrnn
Established
Thanks for all the replies so far.
Apologies about the Nikon V1 - it does have a viewfinder so I was wrong. I'll try to find one and take a look.
I'm not keen on a clip-on finder because the whole point of having a second camera is portability and speed of use. In my youth I had an old Rolleiflex TLR which made me feel like a serious photographer, but I bought an Olympus Pen S half frame camera for colour slides - 72 frames per film made it cheaper to run. It slipped into my pocket and was so quick and easy to use that I found I used it most of the time in preference to the Rollei. I still have that little camera 50 years later and its build quality still feels better than any modern digital camera I've owned. What I'm looking for is the modern digital camera of that early Olympus - something simple, well made, optically good, and with a nice bright viewfinder.
I thought I might have found it in the Fuji x10 because it is a lot smaller than my DSLR, but I soon realised that the battery life was far too short and that the build quality was nothing special. But the one thing I expect above all else in an expensive camera (which the Fuji was), is that it shouldn't suddenly break of its own accord and become instantly worthless. Modern cameras have complex electronics I know, but that's no excuse. And I expect a little more support from the manufacturer whether the camera is in warranty or not. I don't expect to be quoted a repair cost higher than the current new replacement cost.
The Fuji X100S looks nice, but after this experience I wouldn't dream of paying over £1000 pounds for something which might suddenly fail completely when it's 12 months old, although I'll happily pay £1000 for an old Leica M3 or Rolleiflex 2.8F because I know they will retain their value. So my one man boycott of Fuji cameras might seem illogical, but to me it is entirely justified.
Please keep the suggestions coming. The Canon G1X looks like a possibility, or perhaps the G15, but they look poor value compared to an entry level DSLR such as the Nikon D3100 or 3200.
Apologies about the Nikon V1 - it does have a viewfinder so I was wrong. I'll try to find one and take a look.
I'm not keen on a clip-on finder because the whole point of having a second camera is portability and speed of use. In my youth I had an old Rolleiflex TLR which made me feel like a serious photographer, but I bought an Olympus Pen S half frame camera for colour slides - 72 frames per film made it cheaper to run. It slipped into my pocket and was so quick and easy to use that I found I used it most of the time in preference to the Rollei. I still have that little camera 50 years later and its build quality still feels better than any modern digital camera I've owned. What I'm looking for is the modern digital camera of that early Olympus - something simple, well made, optically good, and with a nice bright viewfinder.
I thought I might have found it in the Fuji x10 because it is a lot smaller than my DSLR, but I soon realised that the battery life was far too short and that the build quality was nothing special. But the one thing I expect above all else in an expensive camera (which the Fuji was), is that it shouldn't suddenly break of its own accord and become instantly worthless. Modern cameras have complex electronics I know, but that's no excuse. And I expect a little more support from the manufacturer whether the camera is in warranty or not. I don't expect to be quoted a repair cost higher than the current new replacement cost.
The Fuji X100S looks nice, but after this experience I wouldn't dream of paying over £1000 pounds for something which might suddenly fail completely when it's 12 months old, although I'll happily pay £1000 for an old Leica M3 or Rolleiflex 2.8F because I know they will retain their value. So my one man boycott of Fuji cameras might seem illogical, but to me it is entirely justified.
Please keep the suggestions coming. The Canon G1X looks like a possibility, or perhaps the G15, but they look poor value compared to an entry level DSLR such as the Nikon D3100 or 3200.
dfatty
Well-known
No worries on the V1. IIRC there was a glowing review of it here on RFF by a photojournalist. Not sure it's pocketable though.
As others have noted, the Canon G series viewfinders are atrocious, so definitely try one before buying. It's a shame because the G1X looks to have great IQ with its big sensor.
I'm totally down with one man/woman boycotts, sometimes they're good for the soul, lol.
As others have noted, the Canon G series viewfinders are atrocious, so definitely try one before buying. It's a shame because the G1X looks to have great IQ with its big sensor.
I'm totally down with one man/woman boycotts, sometimes they're good for the soul, lol.
mkvrnn
Established
Further thoughts after hours spent pondering and reading reviews:- there's nothing on the market that satisfies all my requirements.
I've looked at all the Canons from G2 to G15 and G1X, Nikon V1, Nikon P7100 etc, and even the hated Fuji X series. But they're mostly too big for a trouser pocket and they don't go wider than 28mm. Anyway, my searches inevitably led me to Ken Rockwell's excellent website. He thinks that the Canon S100 is the best compact digital on the market. It is certainly very compact and the lens opens out to 24mm, but there's no viewfinder which was my primary requirement.
Out of curiosity and on the strength of Rockwell's glowing recommendation I went to Curry's to view an S100 tonight, along with the G15 and the x20, both of which are more expensive. They all had wobbly lenses, which makes them feel cheaply made, but I liked the feel of the G15 and the viewfinder was not as bad as others have made out. On the other hand, the S100 seems to outperform it, as well as being significantly cheaper and more portable AND having a better wide angle. It seems like the obvious choice if I can live without a viewfinder. It really does seem like a camera I would carry everywhere.
If I'm honest, the other drawback is that it looks like something my kids would carry around rather than a serious camera, but I'm trying hard to not let that influence my decision. Perhaps I need a "My other camera is a Leica M3" sticker!
I'm very tempted, but I need some encouragement. What do other s95 or s100 users think?
I've looked at all the Canons from G2 to G15 and G1X, Nikon V1, Nikon P7100 etc, and even the hated Fuji X series. But they're mostly too big for a trouser pocket and they don't go wider than 28mm. Anyway, my searches inevitably led me to Ken Rockwell's excellent website. He thinks that the Canon S100 is the best compact digital on the market. It is certainly very compact and the lens opens out to 24mm, but there's no viewfinder which was my primary requirement.
Out of curiosity and on the strength of Rockwell's glowing recommendation I went to Curry's to view an S100 tonight, along with the G15 and the x20, both of which are more expensive. They all had wobbly lenses, which makes them feel cheaply made, but I liked the feel of the G15 and the viewfinder was not as bad as others have made out. On the other hand, the S100 seems to outperform it, as well as being significantly cheaper and more portable AND having a better wide angle. It seems like the obvious choice if I can live without a viewfinder. It really does seem like a camera I would carry everywhere.
If I'm honest, the other drawback is that it looks like something my kids would carry around rather than a serious camera, but I'm trying hard to not let that influence my decision. Perhaps I need a "My other camera is a Leica M3" sticker!
I'm very tempted, but I need some encouragement. What do other s95 or s100 users think?
aizan
Veteran
i would do one of those disassembled camera photos, wait a month to let the bitterness go away, then buy an x20. i'd put the receipt in a folder, too.
randolph45
Well-known
÷1
Had a G5 (went to my mom) now a G11 with viewfinder and articulating back screen for low or high shots.This works great for overheads mounted on monopod
john_s
Well-known
I'm with you on viewfinders. But I use a Canon S90, the earlier version of the current S100 (but its wide end is not so wide, a pity). All things considered, the complicated compromises turned me towards a viewfinderless camera and I'd have to say it is pretty good. I can't say that I'm up to date with the alternatives though.
I also do one-man boycotts. Out of four Ricohs, four were duds. They did just outlast the guarantee period though!
dfatty
Well-known
I used to use an s90 as my pocket cam, which was a great little camera and definitely pocketable. But it's been replaced by the Sony RX100, which is simply better with its larger sensor, especially at high ISO. What's also nice about the Sony is that the flash is tiltable and actually works well for bounce flash in a room with normal height ceilings. All that said, I'm sure the s100 is a very nice camera, albeit with a smaller sensor. And it's probably half the price of the Sony.
ETA: it's a whole different ballgame if you're looking at cams without viewfinders now. lots of different choices like the Ricoh GR, Nikon A, and many more.
ETA: it's a whole different ballgame if you're looking at cams without viewfinders now. lots of different choices like the Ricoh GR, Nikon A, and many more.