Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
Dylan Paintings Draw Scrutiny article at the NYT.
(c) Bob Dylan / Marcus Yam for The New York Times (hotlinked from NYT article)
(c) Henri Cartier-Bresson / Magnum Photos (hotlinked from NYT article)
When does copying a photograph become a "firsthand depiction"? Semantics? Misinterpretation? Misrepresentation? (should we have a poll?
)
(c) Bob Dylan / Marcus Yam for The New York Times (hotlinked from NYT article)
(c) Henri Cartier-Bresson / Magnum Photos (hotlinked from NYT article)
When does copying a photograph become a "firsthand depiction"? Semantics? Misinterpretation? Misrepresentation? (should we have a poll?
)
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bob338
Well-known
Just another example, in a long line of examples, of Mr. Zimmerman ripping off other people for his own interests...
d_ross
Registered User
the stupidity or ignorance to not expect other people to be aware of the original photograph is astounding! both for Bob and the gallery.
crawdiddy
qu'est-ce que c'est?
As they say, "Good artists borrow; great artists steal!"
But that seems pretty brazen to me.
But that seems pretty brazen to me.
d_ross
Registered User
I just read the media release for this exhibition, I'm amazed that a gallery of their stature would stoop to celerity non art!
d_ross
Registered User
he could at least have had the decency to paint them well
v_roma
Well-known
I hope Mr. Dylan and/or the gallery do not have the temerity to add insult to injury by saying that making paintings of these photographs and passing them on as original work was deliberate and meant as a statement by the "artist" (or some other bs like that). So ridiculous.
I have no issue with him copying the photo... it's the lying that doesn't sit well with me.
aad
Not so new now.
Looks like he traced them!
MickH
Well-known
If I take a snap of one of those Dylan paintings, then try to sell it... what will the Gagosian/Bobby's lawyers do?
dave lackey
Veteran
I have no idea about the facts or "lying"...but come on...painting a photograph is a problem? If I took a photograph of Van Gogh, is that a crime? If I took a photograph of Henri Bresson's photo, is that a crime? I dunno.
This could be interesting discussion in law school...maybe I should go back and re-take that class and... nah, forget it! I am a happy man.
This could be interesting discussion in law school...maybe I should go back and re-take that class and... nah, forget it!
I am a happy man.d_ross
Registered User
They did, albeit in a roundabout contradictory to their opening statement way!
I find it hard to believe that the Gargosian would feel thay need to show this crap, after all they do have a reputation for showing good art! Nor can I believe that Bob is so pathetic that he needs to go after even more publicity with such unoriginal work!
bob338
Well-known
I have no idea about the facts or "lying"...but come on...painting a photograph is a problem? If I took a photograph of Van Gogh, is that a crime? If I took a photograph of Henri Bresson's photo, is that a crime? I dunno.
This could be interesting discussion in law school...maybe I should go back and re-take that class and... nah, forget it!
If you take a photograph of a Van Gogh and try to sell it you will probably be in a little bit of trouble.
d_ross
Registered User
On Monday a press representative for the Gagosian Gallery said in a statement: “While the composition of some of Bob Dylan’s paintings is based on a variety of sources, including archival, historic images, the paintings’ vibrancy and freshness come from the colors and textures found in everyday scenes he observed during his travels.”
The gallery also pointed to an interview with Mr. Dylan in its exhibition catalog, in which he is asked whether he paints from sketches or photographs. He responds:
“I paint mostly from real life. It has to start with that. Real people, real street scenes, behind the curtain scenes, live models, paintings, photographs, staged setups, architecture, grids, graphic design. Whatever it takes to make it work. What I’m trying to bring out in complex scenes, landscapes, or personality clashes, I do it in a lot of different ways. I have the cause and effect in mind from the beginning to the end. But it has to start with something tangible.”
The gallery also pointed to an interview with Mr. Dylan in its exhibition catalog, in which he is asked whether he paints from sketches or photographs. He responds:
“I paint mostly from real life. It has to start with that. Real people, real street scenes, behind the curtain scenes, live models, paintings, photographs, staged setups, architecture, grids, graphic design. Whatever it takes to make it work. What I’m trying to bring out in complex scenes, landscapes, or personality clashes, I do it in a lot of different ways. I have the cause and effect in mind from the beginning to the end. But it has to start with something tangible.”
d_ross
Registered User
The German photographer Andreas Gursky took a now famous picture of a Jackson Pollack painting at MOMA and some time later discussions started over which was the greater artwork.
d_ross
Registered User
Looking at the articles I can't see anywhere where he has given the slightest hint of respect to the original photographer or painter. A lot of the criticism could have been avoided with some homage paid, as we all should when we base a work on another persons I feel. So one has assume maybe he thought no one would figure it out, but could he be that stupid?
bob338
Well-known
Just to back up what I wrote above; Bob is not very good at crediting other people, or at hiding it!
"Because it has emerged now, in the cyberspace floodplain of information, that path is also glaringly lit. By failing to acknowledge the source for a dozen lines or verses in five cuts -- "All songs written by Bob Dylan," the album's liner notes declare -- the songwriter, unintentionally or not, raises hot-button questions about the use or misuse of another artist's work."
http://articles.sfgate.com/2003-07-..._1_artist-s-work-downloading-college-teachers
Joni Mitchell doesn't seem to like him much...
"Bob is not authentic at all," she said. "He's a plagiarist and his name and voice are fake. Everything about Bob is a deception. We are like night and day, he and I."
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...-accuses-bob-dylan-of-plagiarism-1952970.html
"Because it has emerged now, in the cyberspace floodplain of information, that path is also glaringly lit. By failing to acknowledge the source for a dozen lines or verses in five cuts -- "All songs written by Bob Dylan," the album's liner notes declare -- the songwriter, unintentionally or not, raises hot-button questions about the use or misuse of another artist's work."
http://articles.sfgate.com/2003-07-..._1_artist-s-work-downloading-college-teachers
Joni Mitchell doesn't seem to like him much...
"Bob is not authentic at all," she said. "He's a plagiarist and his name and voice are fake. Everything about Bob is a deception. We are like night and day, he and I."
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...-accuses-bob-dylan-of-plagiarism-1952970.html
furcafe
Veteran
Bob's lawyers have their work cut out for them. Sally Mann was able to get a nice fat settlement out of James Cameron for ripping off 1 of her photos in Titanic.
dave lackey
Veteran
I don't know...maybe we can try it and post the results on RFF. Beats another bag thread.
Or shoe thread. Or...BTW, can we post a photo on RFF as in the OP without permission? No idea...
d_ross
Registered User
someone should go in there and start to take photographs of them, maybe with their phone, and when they are told to stop ask why do you own the copyright on them? an interesting conversation would follow!