back alley
IMAGES
with talk elsewhere of rff being mostly a gear forum and not so much a photography forum got me thinking a bit...
who here considers themselves to be an artist?
does being an artist impact your philosophy about gear? is gear just a means to an end or does it contribute to your art?
what stops us, as a group, from discussing photography/art?
who here considers themselves to be an artist?
does being an artist impact your philosophy about gear? is gear just a means to an end or does it contribute to your art?
what stops us, as a group, from discussing photography/art?
petronius
Veteran
Helmut Newton said once, that there are two dirty words in photography: One is "Art" and the other is "Tasteful".
Darthfeeble
But you can call me Steve
If an artist is one who aspires to create beauty, then I'd like to think of myself as an artist.
Arbitrarium
Well-known
I've never considered photography as art. But then, I'm a graphic designer by trade and I wouldn't call that art either. We should probably avoid trying to define what is and isn't art though because that'll go on forever.
I always think it sounds a bit vain when people say they "make" pictures. Yes, perhaps photography requires some level of skill but you're not "making" the picture. You're taking the picture. Framing the world and taking it away with you.
I do a lot of 'creative' photography with prism filters, double/triple exposures, expired film etc. and I still wouldn't say the finished image was the work of an artist. And I still wouldn't say I "made" the image.
But then, I'm a sour, jaded git.
I think critique/gallery type posts get lost because there's little to discuss. You can chime in with your take on the pictures and that's about it. There's no back-and-forth like a discussion about gear options would have. And maybe there's an element of people's inclination to only go to the effort of giving feedback if it's negative.
I always think it sounds a bit vain when people say they "make" pictures. Yes, perhaps photography requires some level of skill but you're not "making" the picture. You're taking the picture. Framing the world and taking it away with you.
I do a lot of 'creative' photography with prism filters, double/triple exposures, expired film etc. and I still wouldn't say the finished image was the work of an artist. And I still wouldn't say I "made" the image.
But then, I'm a sour, jaded git.
I think critique/gallery type posts get lost because there's little to discuss. You can chime in with your take on the pictures and that's about it. There's no back-and-forth like a discussion about gear options would have. And maybe there's an element of people's inclination to only go to the effort of giving feedback if it's negative.
oftheherd
Veteran
Maybe we need a definition of artist first. 
Personally, I think if one looks at the gallery, and the photos for the week threads, there can be little doubt we have people here who can and do produce photographic art. However one chooses to define it. And how about the W/NW threads?
I was unaware other places on the 'net considered RFF as gear-centric. Maybe I need to get out more on the i'net. I am happy with the mix we have on RFF. I don't mind gear threads. Too much Leica? I read some of them or not. Those I read I figure are going to enlighten me, which I can always use.
I wonder if it might have something to do with how RFF was born? It was the RFF forum, not the everything photographic forum (although we sure do cover a lot of interesting photographic areas). RFF covered RF cameras, which other forums did not, and it was hard to find forums that covered RF, and if allowed, not many people were interested in participating. So RFF became a magnet for RF inclined photographers.
That said, we do cover a lot of gear. But what's wrong with that? I found it fascinating reading about the FSU cameras and how they could take expensive Leica and Contax lenses. Who knew?
Will be interesting to see what others say.
Personally, I think if one looks at the gallery, and the photos for the week threads, there can be little doubt we have people here who can and do produce photographic art. However one chooses to define it. And how about the W/NW threads?
I was unaware other places on the 'net considered RFF as gear-centric. Maybe I need to get out more on the i'net. I am happy with the mix we have on RFF. I don't mind gear threads. Too much Leica? I read some of them or not. Those I read I figure are going to enlighten me, which I can always use.
I wonder if it might have something to do with how RFF was born? It was the RFF forum, not the everything photographic forum (although we sure do cover a lot of interesting photographic areas). RFF covered RF cameras, which other forums did not, and it was hard to find forums that covered RF, and if allowed, not many people were interested in participating. So RFF became a magnet for RF inclined photographers.
That said, we do cover a lot of gear. But what's wrong with that? I found it fascinating reading about the FSU cameras and how they could take expensive Leica and Contax lenses. Who knew?
Will be interesting to see what others say.
back alley
IMAGES
to clarify...the gear folks comment was born from a thread here on rff...many members think of us as a gear related forum with not enough photography/image discussion.
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
Why I have to consider myself as an artist if all I want is to be able to talk about art aspects in photography and on this forum?
If you are not self-proclaimed artist you have no rights to talk about art on forums? Are official artists free to enter art museums?
If you are not self-proclaimed artist you have no rights to talk about art on forums? Are official artists free to enter art museums?
f16sunshine
Moderator
Many Members are correct.
robert blu
quiet photographer
I consider my self an aspiring artist.
In my visual passions, photography and drawing I try to be (become?) an artist, if artist is someone who learns, practices and tries to express his own ideas and visions through his art.
In most cases I do not think gear is essential for this, most of the photographs I consider good or interesting could have been taken with my Leica M7 or with my Nikon FM2 or....I know someone will feel horrified by such a statement, please keep it within a broad view
With one exception: a particular wabi-sabi project I'm working on I can do better with Polaroid cameras and Impossible film, because of the experience and the inaccurate look. In this case for sure gear contributes to my attempt for art.
As for discussing photography or art in a forum I find it very difficult, partly because english is not my native language and this makes difficult to express opinions where meaning could have subtle hints. Of course I would not like to be offensive by using a wrong words when discussing someone else work.
What I like to do is when I have time for the "gallery picks for the week... " thread always to explain in a few words why I select certain photos. Also in the comments for the photos in the gallery when I like a photo I always comment why, what is interesting or good in that photo.
robert
In my visual passions, photography and drawing I try to be (become?) an artist, if artist is someone who learns, practices and tries to express his own ideas and visions through his art.
In most cases I do not think gear is essential for this, most of the photographs I consider good or interesting could have been taken with my Leica M7 or with my Nikon FM2 or....I know someone will feel horrified by such a statement, please keep it within a broad view
With one exception: a particular wabi-sabi project I'm working on I can do better with Polaroid cameras and Impossible film, because of the experience and the inaccurate look. In this case for sure gear contributes to my attempt for art.
As for discussing photography or art in a forum I find it very difficult, partly because english is not my native language and this makes difficult to express opinions where meaning could have subtle hints. Of course I would not like to be offensive by using a wrong words when discussing someone else work.
What I like to do is when I have time for the "gallery picks for the week... " thread always to explain in a few words why I select certain photos. Also in the comments for the photos in the gallery when I like a photo I always comment why, what is interesting or good in that photo.
robert
Erik van Straten
Veteran
Art is about fantasy, imagination. First you need fantasy, imagination, to see pictures, images or stories in the world around you. Secondly you'll need a craft to realize them. So photography is an art, but somehow not on the same level as painting, sculpture, architecture, literature, film and music.
Erik.
Erik.
ptpdprinter
Veteran
Commenting on images is problematic. APUG has two galleries, one where you can only say nice things, and one where you can critique. Hopefully it won't come to that here.
f16sunshine
Moderator
RFF is a gear forum.
There are few artists here who are successful.
Maybe some others who might talk about how much money they make from their images... suggesting they are successful artist.
Other than that, the group is gear interested and gear experienced....so the conversation is about gear.
FWIW I've built "art furniture" and funky staircases (in particular) since starting at it 30 years ago.
In my business there are many artists. We also talk about gear... not art or being artists.
Art discussions are usually for the consumers and collectors of the work not the producers of it.
There are few artists here who are successful.
Maybe some others who might talk about how much money they make from their images... suggesting they are successful artist.
Other than that, the group is gear interested and gear experienced....so the conversation is about gear.
FWIW I've built "art furniture" and funky staircases (in particular) since starting at it 30 years ago.
In my business there are many artists. We also talk about gear... not art or being artists.
Art discussions are usually for the consumers and collectors of the work not the producers of it.
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
You have to pay to be able to see this, but getting of classifieds for sale of gear is free under "new discussions" category in addition of the same view of recent classifieds. And then you look at those galleries you realize what most interesting folks (IMO) are visible of Flickr or else for free.
At RFF we have comments allowed anywhere and place for critique does come here:
Critique / Salon / Picks / Most Views
John Lawrence
Well-known
Agreed.
I think it was Oscar Wilde who said:
“When bankers get together for dinner, they discuss Art. When artists get together for dinner, they discuss Money”
John
back alley
IMAGES
again, to clarify...every line in my OP added up to being a question.
there is not one statement to be found.
i ask because i seek answers.
i'm also curious because this subject pops up here on rff with some regularity (art vs gear) and i am always left with the same question...why doesn't someone here start an art/image centric blog or forum?
there is not one statement to be found.
i ask because i seek answers.
i'm also curious because this subject pops up here on rff with some regularity (art vs gear) and i am always left with the same question...why doesn't someone here start an art/image centric blog or forum?
f16sunshine
Moderator
What does that place look like to you ?
Talk of ethics and philosophy are here on the forum all the time.
Maybe the question is "What makes an art discussion an art discussion?"
back alley
IMAGES
we may have those discussions on occasion but seeing as how this discusion keeps coming back i can only assume we are not meeting the needs of the 'we want more art' folks.
dmr
Registered Abuser
One reason I keep coming back here is that, compared to the other photo boards I frequent, the quality of the images and the quality of the discussions are much higher than on the other Usual Suspect sites.
I don't think it is that. However, there are many photographers that do not consider themselves to be into art or to be artists. Many people use photography for practical purposes that have nothing to do with art galleries or museums. I think that is the difference.
Ranchu
Veteran
Many people use photography for impractical purposes that have nothing to do with art galleries or museums, as well. I rarely use the word artist, but even then I add an e on the end to make it even more pretentious.