shimokita
白黒
"What is Art?" by Leo Tolstoy
"To call up in oneself a feeling once experienced and, having called it up, to convey it by means of movements, lines, colours, sounds, images expressed in words, so that others experience the same feeling - in this consists the activity of art. Art is that human activity which consists in one man's consciously conveying to others, by certain external signs, the feelings he has experienced, and in others being infected by those feelings and also experiencing them."
"As soon people of wealth recognized any art as good so long as it afforded pleasure, and this pleasure-affording art began to be remunerated three things happened: art became a profession, art criticism flourished, and art schools were established."
Tolstoy does go off on tangents, but the book is thin enough ; )
"To call up in oneself a feeling once experienced and, having called it up, to convey it by means of movements, lines, colours, sounds, images expressed in words, so that others experience the same feeling - in this consists the activity of art. Art is that human activity which consists in one man's consciously conveying to others, by certain external signs, the feelings he has experienced, and in others being infected by those feelings and also experiencing them."
"As soon people of wealth recognized any art as good so long as it afforded pleasure, and this pleasure-affording art began to be remunerated three things happened: art became a profession, art criticism flourished, and art schools were established."
Tolstoy does go off on tangents, but the book is thin enough ; )
radi(c)al_cam
Well-known
What do you mean by «Hobbiests are perfectly valid in any medium»?
Would you trust a hobby mechanic working on an airplane?
What about a hobbyist brain surgeon? — Ummm, wait … you actually had one infamous case of hobby brain surgeon in the U.S.A, his name was Walter Jackson Freeman II …
John Bragg
Well-known
For me, Photography is a craft that can be taught. The art is how we use that craft to interpret and visually describe the world around us. The art is in the eye not the tools. It is great to have fancy cameras and talk about them, but the real fun is getting out and taking photos. Gear is less important than vision and in fact some of my favorite personal photos are those I have taken with less than stellar gear. Humble point and shoot cameras can be very effective if pointed and shot in the right direction at the right time.
f16sunshine
Moderator
Use some common sense.
Is brain surgery a hobby?
Should I list every hobby for you or will you list them for me. Come on.
ColSebastianMoran
( IRL Richard Karash )
I try to be. Not always easy.
Agreed completely. I'd rather be happy doing what I want unsuccessfully than having to kiss the asses of people I don't respect.
easyrider
Photo addict
I come from journalism -- mainly writing but have also had photos published illustrating stories that I have covered. (pre-Internet, obviously) I would say anyone photographing reality is not an artist. People like Man Ray and Helmut Newton are likely artists.
In the last few decades people have become obsessed with gear but there is nothing wrong with discussing gear. I do recall, however, that many great photographers decades ago shot with nothing but a Leica and a 50mm lens.
In the last few decades people have become obsessed with gear but there is nothing wrong with discussing gear. I do recall, however, that many great photographers decades ago shot with nothing but a Leica and a 50mm lens.
PKR
Veteran
My name showed up on Artnet, so I guess I quality in gallery world terms. I earn my money making pictures in the non art world. Any art type photos I've sold over the years wouldn't pay my rent.
With that, cameras are tools, little more. I do have favorite cameras, and take good care of them, but, tools. I have a lot of photo gear. Some gets little use, and will be sold or given to my assistant. I learned from my accountant years ago," if it hasn't been used in two years, get rid of it".
I use as little equipment as possible to do my work.. be it work-work or personal work.
I think camera gear can get in the way of seeing and recording what you see. So, I keep it simple. Back-up gear is kept in the car when out working. I carry spare stuff, but I don't pack it around.
Hope that helps Joe....
pkr
With that, cameras are tools, little more. I do have favorite cameras, and take good care of them, but, tools. I have a lot of photo gear. Some gets little use, and will be sold or given to my assistant. I learned from my accountant years ago," if it hasn't been used in two years, get rid of it".
I use as little equipment as possible to do my work.. be it work-work or personal work.
I think camera gear can get in the way of seeing and recording what you see. So, I keep it simple. Back-up gear is kept in the car when out working. I carry spare stuff, but I don't pack it around.
Hope that helps Joe....
pkr
ptpdprinter
Veteran
That is a pretty wholesale denunciation. That leaves what - fantasy?
But these photographers were not artists?
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
Mechanics and surgeons are not artists. Radi(c)al_cam was talking about people who do art as a hobby using non-photo art media like painting and drawing. There are lots of amateur painters; far more than there are professionals.
My grandma was a typical example. A little old lady who liked to do oil paintings of flowers. She was not great at it, and she knew that, but it was still fun for her. I have one of her paintings on my wall, and my parents do too.
radi(c)al_cam
Well-known
Have you ever met …
A «hobby philosopher» who hasn't been a cackler?
A «hobby sociologist» who hasn't been a cackler?
A «hobby psychologist» who hasn't been a cackler?
etc. etc.
And, I must insist: In the U.S.A., neurosurgery obviously was a hobby — I even gave you one infamous name of one particular «BS artist» in that field, if you will.
PKR
Veteran
Some of the best photo work I've seen over the years was done by amateurs. Some do photo jobs now and then but, have other work income.
One artist photographer friend was a big name in the 80-90s. He made a lot of money and wisely bought commercial real estate with the money. He has since dropped off the all star list but, works at art constantly and has occasional shows. He earns his living from a commercial photo printing business he started years back (plus I guess a lot of rental income). It put both his kids through college.
So, his art isn't paying the bills today.. but it's not about money.
radi(c)al_cam
Well-known
Dear Chris,
I often just forget that in the U.S.A. one can today be an electrician, tomorrow a plumber, and so on. And «DIY» is super cool ...
CMur12
Veteran
An isolated case doth not a pattern make. I'm pretty sure you have the occasional scoundrel in Germany, as well.
Your rather deeply seated hostility towards the USA clouds your objectivity.
- Murray
Ranchu
Veteran
Kiss the asses, successfully, you mean. Don't be so hard on yourself, as I said success is in the eye of the beholder, as long as you are doing work you value, that's what's important.
Bob Michaels
nobody special
Could it be that many here have a self directed narrow view that all photography is for artistic purposes? Some photographers see their photos as no more than a vehicle to express their views or no more than a visual record.
Is James Nachtwey, the war photographer, an artist? I would consider him a social / political activist who communicates visually through his photos. See his TED talk at https://www.ted.com/talks/james_nachtwey_s_searing_pictures_of_war#t-1288907 or watch the 2001 movie about him (not by him, about him) simply titled "War Photographer" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9cqobHzWW8 In fact at 1:15 in that movie he says "It is not so much that I want my photos to be looked upon as art objects as it is a form of communication".
Are the NASA space photos art? Or, are they scientific documentation.
There is a lot more about photography than art. And that includes some very good photos and photographers.
Is James Nachtwey, the war photographer, an artist? I would consider him a social / political activist who communicates visually through his photos. See his TED talk at https://www.ted.com/talks/james_nachtwey_s_searing_pictures_of_war#t-1288907 or watch the 2001 movie about him (not by him, about him) simply titled "War Photographer" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9cqobHzWW8 In fact at 1:15 in that movie he says "It is not so much that I want my photos to be looked upon as art objects as it is a form of communication".
Are the NASA space photos art? Or, are they scientific documentation.
There is a lot more about photography than art. And that includes some very good photos and photographers.
radi(c)al_cam
Well-known
Errm, explain please: What would I have to do with Germany, Sir?
edit: I'm sure, there are many «scoundrels» in Germany, it's (e.g.) a NATO country, after all
sreed2006
Well-known
If a forum member asks about whether a loose screw in their Olympus XA is important, or some such question, I'm all over it and find an answer, and enjoy helping.
If a forum member asks about some famous photographer's body of work, my eyes glaze over.
I consider myself an artist when I take that little step to the left before pressing the shutter, because the composition is so much better from that angle. That is the extent of my being an artist (except for post-processing where I can spend hours to get an image just right).
While I like to think I can make artistic pictures, and that the gear is a means to that end, the talk about equipment does interest me more.
I have found that talk about art and artists very quickly degrades into unpleasantries, usually from a select group of unpleasant people who won't give it up and just get mean instead of going away. That is why I typically avoid a thread related to the subject of art.
If a forum member asks about some famous photographer's body of work, my eyes glaze over.
I consider myself an artist when I take that little step to the left before pressing the shutter, because the composition is so much better from that angle. That is the extent of my being an artist (except for post-processing where I can spend hours to get an image just right).
While I like to think I can make artistic pictures, and that the gear is a means to that end, the talk about equipment does interest me more.
I have found that talk about art and artists very quickly degrades into unpleasantries, usually from a select group of unpleasant people who won't give it up and just get mean instead of going away. That is why I typically avoid a thread related to the subject of art.
f16sunshine
Moderator
You seem to be an expert on cacklers and the U.S.A.
Good for you
.... Are those Hobbies ?