Aspiring cinematography student question about RF

A

AdamF

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I'm new here so hello to everybody. Sorry for my english, I'm not native speaker.
I'm planning to go to film shool next year as my dream is to become a cinematographer. I'm totally green and I heard that the best way is to start with photography to learn about exposure, lighting, composition etc. My question is, which type of camera, SLR or RF is better for that? I want totally manual camera because I want to learn every aspect of taking a photo and I love the look of old rangefinders ;) I think that 8mm movie cameras are also based on rangefinders, not sure about 16mm and 35mm. I will be greatly thankful if someone could help me with this.
 
Totally manual it is a must for learning. Otherwise, it is just a matter of personal taste. But in your special case, as cinematography is all reflex (or EVF respectively hybrid electronic/reflex), getting the hang of using reflex finders is without doubt more beneficial and the first thing you should learn. Additional rangefinder skills are nice to have and will broaden your experience, but you will never require them for your future work.
 
Take my advice, as a former cinematography maj. who shot a couple films... Your camera, if as a student it's in your price range, is a DSLR that has HD video capabilities. The Nikon D90 is a good one that's sub-1000, US. "Bigger scale" small scale productions are using a high end Canon DSLR. I'm looking at the Samsung NX when it comes out. There are many articles about aspiring filmmakers using DSLRs, here is but a sample (there are many others): http://www.filmmakermagazine.com/spring2009/still-cameras.php

1. If you shoot films, at some point during your career, digital video will take over.
2. With a DSLR, you can MAKE MOVIES on the cheap. You can load it into your computer, edit, use effects.
3. Starting out, low budget films, perhaps your own, will most likely be shot using a DSLR
4. With manual settings and some reading you can learn the basics of the relationship between aperture, shutter speed, and film (or sensor) speed.

This stuff is easy, focus on composition and blocking shots.

HD DSLRs are becoming the darlings of the the independent filmmakers. They are low budget "RED" cameras. (RED cameras are higher end cameras with larger sensors designed specifically to shoot "film styles" digital video that looks more like film...) The reason is that these cameras give you much more film-like quality that video ever did - as much as it pains me to say as a film lover, it's almost indistinguishable now. A huge part of the reason is the larger sensor size gives you selective focus and control over depth of field that video cameras can't.

If you can't afford a DSLR that shoots HD, then I would sugget any all manual film camera - rangefinder or SLR. It almost doesn't matter. By the way, I'm selling a Yashica Lynx 14 (all manual) for $90 US, if interested (thought I'd mention) but there are a lot of others on the forum or on the auction site.

Use the Internet and research film productions being shot on DSLR. Lots of stuff out there.

Nick
 
Sevo: So if I understand you correctly you're suggesting SLR as a first choice for me?

NickTrop: I was thinking about starting with film SLR or RF camera and buying something like Canon HV30 in december, now i can't afford it. I live in Europe so I will probably buy something here because of shipping costs. Still can't decide SLR or RF
 
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Sounds like NickTrop knows what he is talking about and has good advice. If you cannot go with digital, then look at any of the old but reliable SLR. That includes most any sold in the last 40 years. Yashica, Pentax, Minolta, Nikon, Canon, and Olympus are some that spring to mind, but there are others. I have a personal preference for Fujica, but they are harder to find and if you want Fujinon lenses, they are more expensive. After that, Yashicas such as the TL Electro X or later FX series (bayonet mount lenses). Yashinon and Takumar lenses in M42 mount are good and still not all that expensive.

Look around and ask questions if you wish.
 
AdamF said:
Sevo: So if I understand you correctly you're suggesting SLR as a first choice for me?

NickTrop: I was thinking about starting with film SLR or RF camera and buying something like Canon HV30 in december, now i can't afford it. I live in Europe so I will probably buy something here because of shipping costs. Still can't decide SLR or RF
Click to expand...

That being the case, I would go with an all manual SLR. - an SLR is an interchangeable lens system so you'll get used to using prime lenses with different focal lengths (you can on a RF but they're much more expensive lenses and systems) and you can use zoom lenses. Here's one I would suggest. This is the SLR I use, same basic camera as when I bought it circa 1990 and I still use it. It's a good inexpensive kit branded "Vivitar" made by Cosina. It's also Pentax K mount, lots of primes and zooms available for not that much money used.
 
AdamF said:
Sevo: So if I understand you correctly you're suggesting SLR as a first choice for me?

NickTrop: I was thinking about starting with film SLR or RF camera and buying something like Canon HV30 in december, now i can't afford it. I live in Europe so I will probably buy something here because of shipping costs. Still can't decide SLR or RF
Click to expand...

SLR, by all means (well, unless you explicitly intend to spend the time until school starts doing something not cinematography related).

My suggestion would be to pick up some old SLR with all manual mode for cheap or free (almost every family has some uncle with a old SLR to spare these days). Don't buy anything expensive just now - you won't need it, every film school I ever attended or held classes at had enough gear for their beginning students' needs. Besides, you may want to expand into something scarce or unavailable at your school within two or three years, or do a project beyond the regular budget - save your money for these eventualities.

Sevo
 
Ok so I'll stick with SLR. Here in Europe there're lots of cheap german and russian SLR cameras so I'll try them. Thank you all, I really appreciate your help and fast responses :)

Meanwhile I'll start collecting money for a DSLR as NickTrop suggests.

JSU, thanks for advice on canon hv30
 
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Adam you might also like to post your question on Roger Deakins forum:

Roger Deakins ASC BSC

Roger is a rangefinder shooter - Leica M6 - and offers lots of help to guys like you starting out in cinematography. There is also a good list of recommended reading.

He has been the DP on a long list of impressive films too. ;)
 
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Unless you have serious budget constraints, get a DSLR that will shoot HD video. Pretty much everyone I know who works in or studies film has one. They're great when you're starting out and for shooting personal projects. And you can use it to shoot still photos!

Nikon D90 seems to be universally praised and not too expensive. If you've got more $$$ the Canon 5DII is probably a good choice.
 
Here's a short film called Black Cab shot with a Canon 5D Mark II, just to give you an example. One advantage DSLRs have, expecially the Canon, (out of my $$ range) is lowlight capabilities, shown here in this noir-y short. Expect to see a new film movement like the "DSLR New Wave" or "DSLR-Noir" (or some such) exploiting this down the road. Been a while since there's been an actual "film movement" that the pompous film profs who you'll be exposed to can discuss. (Prepare to watch The Odessa Steps sequence until your eyes fall out of your head...)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjXhWlw5C6U
 
NickTrop said:
Here's a short film called Black Cab shot with a Canon 5D Mark II, just to give you an example. One advantage DSLRs have, expecially the Canon, (out of my $$ range) is lowlight capabilities, shown here in this noir-y short. Expect to see a new film movement like the "DSLR New Wave" or "DSLR-Noir" (or some such) exploiting this down the road. Been a while since there's been an actual "film movement" that the pompous film profs who you'll be exposed to can discuss. (Prepare to watch The Odessa Steps sequence until your eyes fall out of your head...)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjXhWlw5C6U
Click to expand...

Hmm to be honest, I didn't like it. It doesn't have the movie look imho. Maybe because of the framerate, I don't know, I'm noob:)

For example I fell in love with this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryvYnXzVYQY

it's MiniDV + 35mm adapter and I think it looks fabulous, hovewer it can't shoot in HD
 
Hello!

If you want to study cinematography, you should not put the film camera away. Maybe a 50$ K1000 will help you master the exposure more than an actual digital camera. BUT, I did't say to not buy one. For your studies, the best camera for now considering the price is those 5D'ish one. I must tell you that the workflow is a real pain for one who do not understand an editing platform. Yet, this give really good picture. In Mtl right now, the RED has lost his interest for the producer... They all shoot their music video and commercial with it. Even if they have the budget to shoot with a RED... Guest that the penthouse in Westmount is expensive, though..:angel:

Take the RED again for example ; the signal you receive in the monitor is NOT the actual signal written on the card. So, it's almost like you are shooting film. You use it only to check the overall contrast and hue; that's all. You have to master the exposure to get the best out of this one.

It's suppose to change very soon... but yet it's a very expensive feature. I've spoke with a colorist from Technicolor and the new buzz is a kind of new computer that can take the signal directly from the sensor and you can do colorisation directly on the set. Like I have said, this is quite expensive and you need a specialist on the set...

So good luck with your studies!
 
Thanks :) I understand that, but 5D is waaay far beyond what I can spend now.
I have to mention that I'm applying to film school in the next year. I have no chances in this year because at this moment I don't even know how to hold a camera and there is about 10 people on 1 place. They also require sample photos. So I think the best way is to start with cheap SLR, learn basics of still photography, in the meantime read books on cinematography, then in december buy DSLR (i think prices will drop till then) and apply to school in june. It will require some work but the competition is strong.
 
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