raid
Dad Photographer
I read yesterday on bbc.com that in the UK, a company that sells audio recordings is now back to manufacturing audi cassettes due to the return of audiophiles to analog music and away from "(0,1) music".
Could this be a sign that the aphotography market may also have good taste, and maybe more and more people realize that using digital photography is a phase that will slowly fade away in favor of a partial return to film?
I wanted to try out digital photography, so I bought Olympus M4/3 cameras, followed by an M8 and then an M9. I can create good looking images with such cameras. Still.
This may be a topic thst has been rehashed a tousand times online.
Are you a user of digital cameras and are you feeling nostalgic about your old film cameras?
I saw a RFF thread on some new Sigma digital cameras, and I wondered whether this is a trend in new gadgets and digital toys that ost a bundle.
Where will this lead to and are we really enjoying it all?
Could this be a sign that the aphotography market may also have good taste, and maybe more and more people realize that using digital photography is a phase that will slowly fade away in favor of a partial return to film?
I wanted to try out digital photography, so I bought Olympus M4/3 cameras, followed by an M8 and then an M9. I can create good looking images with such cameras. Still.
This may be a topic thst has been rehashed a tousand times online.
Are you a user of digital cameras and are you feeling nostalgic about your old film cameras?
I saw a RFF thread on some new Sigma digital cameras, and I wondered whether this is a trend in new gadgets and digital toys that ost a bundle.
Where will this lead to and are we really enjoying it all?
jwc57
Well-known
It seems that "boom boxes" have become collectible, just like some film cameras.
This was on NPR a couple of years ago and is about the love of cassettes in the L.A. area.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/therecord/2011/02/24/133995073/cassette-tapes-get-a-west-coast-rewind
This was on NPR a couple of years ago and is about the love of cassettes in the L.A. area.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/therecord/2011/02/24/133995073/cassette-tapes-get-a-west-coast-rewind
raid
Dad Photographer
Thanks for the link.
It seems that RFF members, in genral, have accepted the demise of film.
It seems that RFF members, in genral, have accepted the demise of film.
BW400CN
Bessamatic forever!
For me me my "old" cameras are just tools and like any craftsmen I like some of my tools more and use them more as others.
That´s why I came back to film, as I love to use my "old" tools.
I just wonder that there is a market for audio cassettes - they allways had the worsest sound quality of all. Vinyl or tape - for sure that sounds great and much warmer then CD or MP3 but audio cassette?
That´s why I came back to film, as I love to use my "old" tools.
I just wonder that there is a market for audio cassettes - they allways had the worsest sound quality of all. Vinyl or tape - for sure that sounds great and much warmer then CD or MP3 but audio cassette?
btgc
Veteran
Easier to use than vinils or tapes, without hassle of both. Just like 35mm film - buy, load and boom, you are film photographer. Yes, lesser quality than vinils/tapes or medium format film, but quick and easy to use.
rhl-oregon
Cameras Guitars Wonders
I have no idea about whether there will be a renaissance in audio tape as in vinyl, but why not, as another generation age to the point where it misses a type of tool or process that it took for granted or indeed scorned while younger?
In any case, technologically, we're past CD as much as past audiotape and vinyl, but the webstream offers no artifacts, just the sounds and the soundfiles. In my college town, audio vinyl is quite valued, not to say fetishized, among students as well as among the 30-/40-50-somethings. I don't miss these audio artifacts much--though my spouse and I still have our albums, our tapes, our turntable and cassette decks, which we use as little as we use our CDs and CD player--but I do value the picture-taking artifacts, and their negatives, even if more of my products are screen-based rather than printed. And I'm lucky to have a 3rd-generation photography shop nearby, where I can have anything and everything developed, and buy an Exakta or a Nikon S2. And I do see students coming in to buy their first film cameras and start to value the pre-computer mechanics and the brainpower necessary to produce a good exposure of quickly shifting light.
I choose to be encouraged by this.
But I certainly don't think RFF is abandoning film cameras! That's the province of DPReviews and GetDPI.
In any case, technologically, we're past CD as much as past audiotape and vinyl, but the webstream offers no artifacts, just the sounds and the soundfiles. In my college town, audio vinyl is quite valued, not to say fetishized, among students as well as among the 30-/40-50-somethings. I don't miss these audio artifacts much--though my spouse and I still have our albums, our tapes, our turntable and cassette decks, which we use as little as we use our CDs and CD player--but I do value the picture-taking artifacts, and their negatives, even if more of my products are screen-based rather than printed. And I'm lucky to have a 3rd-generation photography shop nearby, where I can have anything and everything developed, and buy an Exakta or a Nikon S2. And I do see students coming in to buy their first film cameras and start to value the pre-computer mechanics and the brainpower necessary to produce a good exposure of quickly shifting light.
I choose to be encouraged by this.
But I certainly don't think RFF is abandoning film cameras! That's the province of DPReviews and GetDPI.
one90guy
Well-known
Wish I had the funds to return to vinyl, and I was a carpenter for many years so I always have had a love of good hand tools. My film cameras are treated and cared for as my hand tools.
David
David
jtm6
Well-known
I too am encouraged, and even inspired, by the young whipper snappers. I think it is bigger than just about the tools, processes, mediums, media, etc. I'm also hearing from the college-aged art student crowd that a lot of people are moving into or back into traditional art approaches vs digital/computer/tablet.
robklurfield
eclipse
Analogue audio = good.
Film = good.
Vinyl records = good.
Reel-to-reel tape = real sound.
Cassette tapes = not so much.
Cassette tapes were convenient. The sound was adequate to good, but rarely great. The reliability of the media was never enough. Kinks and jams.
I have thousands of vinyl records ... dozens of cassettes. The vinyl will outlive me. The cassettes? Kind of iffy.
On the other hand, the fact that someone wants to add choices to analogue listening and has customers/listeners for it is good.
Film = good.
Vinyl records = good.
Reel-to-reel tape = real sound.
Cassette tapes = not so much.
Cassette tapes were convenient. The sound was adequate to good, but rarely great. The reliability of the media was never enough. Kinks and jams.
I have thousands of vinyl records ... dozens of cassettes. The vinyl will outlive me. The cassettes? Kind of iffy.
On the other hand, the fact that someone wants to add choices to analogue listening and has customers/listeners for it is good.
tsiklonaut
Well-known
I'm also vinyl nutter, especially when combined with a proper tube equipment. :angel:
True about the longetivity on cassettes, but chrome and metal cassettes sounded bloody good and with a good high end deck they maybe didn't beat but gave a good run for the money for many reel-to-reels.
Film could make some return. Especially today's "information overloaded" world where more people are starting to think "less is more" and to be different makes you feel privileged. Film ticks those boxes for some people, but I don't think it'll be a major comeback of those old golden times when there just wasn't any other choice. Today convenience wins over art. So make no mistake, the digital convenience is here to dominate and grow. I can bet on there will be cameras in the near-future you don't have to even turn, it'll frame for you and push the button for you as well and automatically choose the best picture from 1000s pics from the very same scene it was constantly shooting, and most of all: people WILL LOVE IT, since it's so easy and convenient
Anyways if just 1-2% of all photographers worldwide (those with at least half-a-brain
) would occasionally (not necessarily daily-basis) shoot film it'd be enough to keep the industry rolling, competition and prices down. If it'll be considerably less than 1% it'll turn into a niche market and massive prices to be paid. Fortunately B&W isn't going anywhere (archival and microfilm will keep it rolling even IF through some reason photographers largely abondon it). Instant film seems like it has a large consumption potential for the "new hippie" generation, but there's not much promotion on the new Fuji instants going on so people don't know about them. Cibachrome was a niche and dissapeared, now E6 are on the way to a niche direction, C41 is now quite stable, but it's future also unknown.Anyways, the weekend is coming - I'll go and shoot some color film since I love it and in this process, as a by-product, I hope I just do my little part keeping this fantastic analog medium rolling.
Margus
panerai
Well-known
My current car has a cassette player (dealer install) as I have a large number of cassettes made from borrowed albums I can no longer get.
My nest car will also have one if available
DON
My nest car will also have one if available
DON
robklurfield
eclipse
Margus:
tubes? got them , too (Cary 300B monoblocks; Melos pre-amp).
more of a pain the ass the film in some ways (fried tubes; biasing; fear of electrocuting myself; expense; etc), but the sound is rewarding ... just sucks you in. would rather listen to scratches on vinyl then awfullness of bad digital.
funny, though; most of my listening these days is via my Mac or iPad and Spotify. like film vs. digital, I find that it's all about what I hear or see. the medium is NOT the message. the image/music is why I focus/tune in.
tubes? got them , too (Cary 300B monoblocks; Melos pre-amp).
more of a pain the ass the film in some ways (fried tubes; biasing; fear of electrocuting myself; expense; etc), but the sound is rewarding ... just sucks you in. would rather listen to scratches on vinyl then awfullness of bad digital.
funny, though; most of my listening these days is via my Mac or iPad and Spotify. like film vs. digital, I find that it's all about what I hear or see. the medium is NOT the message. the image/music is why I focus/tune in.
raid
Dad Photographer
I kept my Akai reel to reel (their top model), an we looked for an entertainment center a few years ago, I had a difficult time finding one that had the right dimensions to hold the Akai.
Now, the Akai sits on a custom built shelf in a room that has become my audio room, so to speak. The sound is awesome indeed. I may have paid $150 for it at a pawnshop about twenty years ago. An exchange student from Germany asked me to show him a pawnshop, so we went into one. When he spotted this particular model, he told me that I should buy it, "even as furniture", as it is very beautiful.
Raid
Now, the Akai sits on a custom built shelf in a room that has become my audio room, so to speak. The sound is awesome indeed. I may have paid $150 for it at a pawnshop about twenty years ago. An exchange student from Germany asked me to show him a pawnshop, so we went into one. When he spotted this particular model, he told me that I should buy it, "even as furniture", as it is very beautiful.
Raid
gsgary
Well-known
noisycheese
Normal(ish) Human
Film DIED?!?!? I didn't even know it was sick!
tsiklonaut
Well-known
Yep, same for me - musical ingenuety is what I seek for BUT if it comes in true analog form (vinyl), it beats any CD, let alone MP3. If good music has met a good medium - from fanatical consumer's point of view - it has hit the nail then!
And I still find more and more excellent albums being released on vinyl. And some of them are even today analog-recorded (running 2" R2R tape machines in studios or live) and fully analog-mastered which sound breathtakingly stunning.
I intentionally stay away from quality-compromized convenience, wife's has an iPod and I hate the sound of it when she plugs it into tube amp. Just horrible those MP3s sound.
I run a Van Den Hul moving-coil cartridge on DIY tuned Thorens turntable with Project tube pre-amp and a Chinese (yep!
) tube end-amp. I did put Russian military-grade KT77 tubes into my chinese amp and rebiased it - sound improved also. In fact we did comparisons in my friend's owned hi-fi shop with crazy expensive tube-amps and speaker setups and it was up there in the mix that came as a surprise for both of us. Since then it's been working flawlessly for years - no re-biasing required what so ever, just switch it on, enjoy the sweet tube sound that just kisses you ears and switch it off once your finished. And I burn it a lot, almost every day.In fact now tube amps seem to be too convenient for me and now being spoiled, I wouldn't ever want a sterile sounding transistor amp
My CDs just collect dust these days...
Paul Jenkin
Well-known
I've always kept my vinyl albums and always will. Audiophile vinyl pressings are definitely niche but are becoming more widely available. There's a ready market for used / old vinyl all over the UK. Audio cassettes, on the other hand were crap. Poor sound quality compared to reel-to-reel and vinyl and also prone to snapping / snagging. I miss then like I miss having a pimple on my bum.
As far as photography is concerned, I've never given up using film, nor will I so long as there's film to be had. 90% of what I shoot is shot on film. Film sales are increasing steadily and I belong to a couple of film-only forums but I also have a Nikon D3 and Panasonic Lumix LX7. Both superb cameras that I enjoy using - but I don't get results I'm as happy with as when shooting film.
Good luck to the audio-cassette revival. They were immensely popular in their day but I wouldn't ever regard them as an audiophile medium....
As far as photography is concerned, I've never given up using film, nor will I so long as there's film to be had. 90% of what I shoot is shot on film. Film sales are increasing steadily and I belong to a couple of film-only forums but I also have a Nikon D3 and Panasonic Lumix LX7. Both superb cameras that I enjoy using - but I don't get results I'm as happy with as when shooting film.
Good luck to the audio-cassette revival. They were immensely popular in their day but I wouldn't ever regard them as an audiophile medium....
DriesI
Established
tsiklonaut
Well-known
I'd agree with most of it, but I would consider them an audiophile medium IF they'd bin the "normal" ("ferro"-type) cassette and made all the originals on chrome- or metal types.
Normals never were a good performers, but as with all tape - they have "character" in sound. Chrome- and Metal types ran circles around normals and even gave some R2Rs a run for the money.
Although nothing beats a proper pro grade R2R tape - it's called 'tape magic', a commonly used term in studio recording that even highly developed sophisticated digital sound processors can't fully simulate today. Character in sound is what most of "audiophilism" is all about IMHO. It's not about "high-fidelity" as much as about psycho-acoustics - how to shape the sound so it kisses your ears so to speak. Electromagnetic tape always renders sound into very "warm" and "involving" psycho-acoustically, hence lot of musicians still use the tape as their final mastering or even during recording (i.e. Herbie Hancock's grammy-winning "The Joni Letters" full album was all recorded on proper 2" R2R tape - the album sounds fabulous)
Just like with film - you never seek the photo to be as much realistic as possible but rather to "paint" the scene out with its own (artistic-) character that inspires you
IMHO anyways...
Good link. Properly analog mastered 180 gram vinyls are the very definition of 'musical heaven' for me!
Cheers,
Margus
clayne
shoot film or die
Yep analog tape (1/4, 1/2) kicks some serious ass. Many people will be surprised to know that quite a few engineers bounce entire mixes off of tape in attempt to get the "sound." Nothing compared to a full on 24tk reel to reel though. BTW you'll notice that with the digital revolution songwriting and general quality of music isn't doing so hot. Compare that to the 60s-90s where they were cranking out decent stuff all the time - even in the pop realm.
Regardless of what digital freaks will tell you, the process does dictate results. It raises the bar, raises the commitment of the artists. As listeners and buyers we reap the reward in passionate and real music. Give a bunch of options and the ability to "fix it in post"? Massive loads of crap as a result. You're seeing it and hearing it day to day. Blatant laziness and full-on hack approach to pretty much everything. Why? No forced commitment.
Regardless of what digital freaks will tell you, the process does dictate results. It raises the bar, raises the commitment of the artists. As listeners and buyers we reap the reward in passionate and real music. Give a bunch of options and the ability to "fix it in post"? Massive loads of crap as a result. You're seeing it and hearing it day to day. Blatant laziness and full-on hack approach to pretty much everything. Why? No forced commitment.