Bille
Well-known
Audio cassettes have never been "audiophile" as far as I know.
http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=451313
nikkor-watching
Established
Audio cassettes were what us plebs had to use at the time to record radio shows before affordable digital came along. We quickly came to terms with its limitations because that was the only realistic option. The gearheads could save themselves a lot of time by adopting such an attitude.
I prefer analogue to a recording with a garbling effect of a low bitrate. I heard a radio show on AM recently that you could tell was broadcast as a low bitrate digital stream onto the analogue airwaves so you had the worst of both.
I prefer analogue to a recording with a garbling effect of a low bitrate. I heard a radio show on AM recently that you could tell was broadcast as a low bitrate digital stream onto the analogue airwaves so you had the worst of both.
Spanik
Well-known
While I'm definitely in the film camp, you will not find me raving about analog audio. LP is bearable when they are new, tape is a hassle not worth the infinitesimal upgrade and cassette is not worth mentioning safe for the convenience above the 2 other analog carriers.
But the typical mp3 is a step backwards too much. I can understand people reared on mp3 discovering vinyl and finding it a step upwards. The artefacts on most mp3's make my hair -the little of it left- stand up. But nothing beats well recorded CD.
I do some location recording myself and a good straight to digital recording of a pipe organ sounds as good as if you were there yourself. (I was there so I know to compare with what) No LP of organ sounds as good as that: not enough low, no separation, no real high and reverb lost in a sea of noise.
But the typical mp3 is a step backwards too much. I can understand people reared on mp3 discovering vinyl and finding it a step upwards. The artefacts on most mp3's make my hair -the little of it left- stand up. But nothing beats well recorded CD.
I do some location recording myself and a good straight to digital recording of a pipe organ sounds as good as if you were there yourself. (I was there so I know to compare with what) No LP of organ sounds as good as that: not enough low, no separation, no real high and reverb lost in a sea of noise.
clayne
shoot film or die
It always cracks me up the people who can't overcome the noise of vinyl (hiss). It's like they get fixated on it an can't listen to the music. Kind of similar to how people with perfect pitch have a hard time listening to anything not perfectly in tune. In the end the individuals with the ability to overlook and ignore "error" are the ones who come out with more enjoyment. Vinyl is great.
Spanik
Well-known
It isn't only the noise. Dynamic range is seriously limited (about 50dB), stereo separation is very weak in the bass (they have to cut bass in mono often), high is limited. Then you run into all the mechanical problems like warped disks, off center holes, tracking issues etc. I do have a TT for 33 and one for 78 permanently set up. I do use them but only to transcribe to digital.
Dante_Stella
Rex canum cattorumque
I got a huge kick out of walking into a Target electronics section yesterday to see 180gm vinyl records being sold alongside the worst USB turntables ever imagined.
But seriously I have found a use for cassettes - my mother gave me a huge bag of story cassettes that she and my father made for me in the early 1970s. They were a big hit with my 3-year-old son, who demanded more. So I found a Sony dictation recorder and made some more. For children, these are easier to handle than CDs, which tend to get scratched to hell. There was, of course, the one time he yanked an entire tape out (which he regretted and has never repeated). That said, he also woke me up one morning and handed me the door to my Harman Kardon tape deck (fortunately, it was re-attachable).
As to why analog audio is becoming popular? At some level, it may be the sound (at least ostensibly). But a lot of us are tired of the intrusion of computers in every aspect of our lives. Just think of iTunes keeping stats on what you listen to and Spotify broadcasting your preferences to everyone. Records and cassettes - from a processing standpoint, are amazingly efficient. Throw it on, start it up, and a minimum quantum of electronics and control choices delivers what you want. I enjoy kicking back on a Saturday and not always looking into an LCD. That's not to say that iPods have their charms - such as compressing thousands of hours of audio onto something smaller than a cassette tape.
Are cassettes capable? Yes, though the conditions under which they have to be recorded to hit 20-20Khz with 72db of dynamic range are very constrained (starting with using metal tapes). That's part of why good CD players had "peak search" functions in the old days (DATs were the other part). Treble response is highly dependent on the bias fine trim setting of the recording deck (as well as whether the speed of recording and playback were identical). But mutatis mutandis, it is as good as the hearing of any person over 30 - and even when I was in my 20s, I concluded that CDs beat the pants off cassettes.
BIC made some interesting decks in the 1970s that recorded and played at double speed to kill the noise. And Pioneer made an interesting "dynamic expander" (the RG-1) that superproportionately expands output from cassettes and close-groove LPs. It also works great for Airtunes and iPod playback.
Dante
But seriously I have found a use for cassettes - my mother gave me a huge bag of story cassettes that she and my father made for me in the early 1970s. They were a big hit with my 3-year-old son, who demanded more. So I found a Sony dictation recorder and made some more. For children, these are easier to handle than CDs, which tend to get scratched to hell. There was, of course, the one time he yanked an entire tape out (which he regretted and has never repeated). That said, he also woke me up one morning and handed me the door to my Harman Kardon tape deck (fortunately, it was re-attachable).
As to why analog audio is becoming popular? At some level, it may be the sound (at least ostensibly). But a lot of us are tired of the intrusion of computers in every aspect of our lives. Just think of iTunes keeping stats on what you listen to and Spotify broadcasting your preferences to everyone. Records and cassettes - from a processing standpoint, are amazingly efficient. Throw it on, start it up, and a minimum quantum of electronics and control choices delivers what you want. I enjoy kicking back on a Saturday and not always looking into an LCD. That's not to say that iPods have their charms - such as compressing thousands of hours of audio onto something smaller than a cassette tape.
Are cassettes capable? Yes, though the conditions under which they have to be recorded to hit 20-20Khz with 72db of dynamic range are very constrained (starting with using metal tapes). That's part of why good CD players had "peak search" functions in the old days (DATs were the other part). Treble response is highly dependent on the bias fine trim setting of the recording deck (as well as whether the speed of recording and playback were identical). But mutatis mutandis, it is as good as the hearing of any person over 30 - and even when I was in my 20s, I concluded that CDs beat the pants off cassettes.
BIC made some interesting decks in the 1970s that recorded and played at double speed to kill the noise. And Pioneer made an interesting "dynamic expander" (the RG-1) that superproportionately expands output from cassettes and close-groove LPs. It also works great for Airtunes and iPod playback.
Dante
JoeV
Thin Air, Bright Sun
Good stuff, Dante. I recently off-loaded a Tascam 424 Mk2 Portastudio to a friend, that I hadn't used in several years. It featured DBX noise reduction and high-speed recording, along with a 4-channel mixer with XLR mike inputs. But alas, I wasn't putting it to good use, and my friend will.
What I like about cassettes and decks are the simple controls. Slip in the tape, close the door, press play and listen.
~Joe
What I like about cassettes and decks are the simple controls. Slip in the tape, close the door, press play and listen.
~Joe
Ming Rider
Film, the next evolution.
With guitars and bass there is still a strong desire for valve amplifiers because of their sound and warmth. They share the market equally with solid-state amp's.
clayne
shoot film or die
Any medium which responds to over input or distortion in a musically pleasing fashion is a medium worth listening to. All the analog mediums do this with reel to reel tape performing the best. Digital audio past 0dB, just like digital cameras, is completely clipped and doesn't just sound like crap - it's fundamentally unlistenable. All others saturate naturally which is why they're pleasing mediums.
As far as vinyl and dynamic range, have you listened to any modern music lately? They're not even remotely using 50dB of dynamic range as it is. Additionally listening to vinyl sounds like listening to something living and real - the sound feels "alive" and it's hard to put a finger on. I'm cool with CDs but could care less how clear they're are etc. because I'm listening to the music not now many high order harmonics I'm able to perceive from a single high hat hit. In short, vinyl is good enough. Music is an emotional and feel thing not a cerebral thing.
As far as vinyl and dynamic range, have you listened to any modern music lately? They're not even remotely using 50dB of dynamic range as it is. Additionally listening to vinyl sounds like listening to something living and real - the sound feels "alive" and it's hard to put a finger on. I'm cool with CDs but could care less how clear they're are etc. because I'm listening to the music not now many high order harmonics I'm able to perceive from a single high hat hit. In short, vinyl is good enough. Music is an emotional and feel thing not a cerebral thing.
2WK
Rangefinder User
Listening to all you audiofiles makes me want to get some tube amps!
A friend of mine has some beautiful HUGE cabinet klipschhorns that fill up his livingroom corners. He plays vinyl through a tube makintosh and it sounds soo incredible..even at very low volumes.
A friend of mine has some beautiful HUGE cabinet klipschhorns that fill up his livingroom corners. He plays vinyl through a tube makintosh and it sounds soo incredible..even at very low volumes.
dubya
Established
To me, it's much more satisfying to push a shutter button and have an image permanently "burned" onto a piece of film that can last hundreds of years with only minimal care, rather than to go through the same sequence only to record a digital image that requires several computers to be involved before something which is still only semi-permanent emerges from a printer and into the "real" world.
Storing digital images will always require <i>much</i> more care due to changing technology and unstable storage mediums. Film will never die, record it once and forget it.
Working behind a photo counter, I do see it making a small comeback. Not only with younger folks eager to try something "new", after their digital cameras taught them how to be a "photographer", but with others who weren't as happy as they thought they'd be with the new technology for one reason or another.
I own and use both digital and film cameras, MP3 players and cassette decks and turntables. You'd have to pry some of my analog equipment from my cold, dead fingers and you'd probably never get the vinyl or my film images. The feelings aren't quite the same about my digital "stuff". It's either outdated-soon equipment that won't be worth a lick in a decade or digital files that I've surrendered to either the internet, losing myself for one reason or another or having to backup and re-record continually until I die... at which point, someone else has to take over.
When was the last time you had to make sure that shoebox full of Granddad's negatives was recorded on the currently accepted media? Don't worry about it, just pass them down to the next generation.... along with an LP collection.
Storing digital images will always require <i>much</i> more care due to changing technology and unstable storage mediums. Film will never die, record it once and forget it.
Working behind a photo counter, I do see it making a small comeback. Not only with younger folks eager to try something "new", after their digital cameras taught them how to be a "photographer", but with others who weren't as happy as they thought they'd be with the new technology for one reason or another.
I own and use both digital and film cameras, MP3 players and cassette decks and turntables. You'd have to pry some of my analog equipment from my cold, dead fingers and you'd probably never get the vinyl or my film images. The feelings aren't quite the same about my digital "stuff". It's either outdated-soon equipment that won't be worth a lick in a decade or digital files that I've surrendered to either the internet, losing myself for one reason or another or having to backup and re-record continually until I die... at which point, someone else has to take over.
When was the last time you had to make sure that shoebox full of Granddad's negatives was recorded on the currently accepted media? Don't worry about it, just pass them down to the next generation.... along with an LP collection.