B&W Processing and Labs

[DRabbit]

I'm feeling a little overwhelmed (being new to the film world) so bare with me here.

Let me start by saying that I've already read a lot about developing myself. I'm not ready for that, so please, don't preach to me about doing my own processing. I've read all about how to do it and listened to you all (in other threads) talk about how easy it is... I'm just not ready to go down that path. I'm a bit fearful of dealing with the chemicals (rational or not) and temperatures and all that. Let's just leave that for another topic 😉

I did get a negative scanner so will be doing processing-only at a lab.

I'm trying to find a decent pro lab locally to me. I did find one that does color and c41 B&W film and it's less than a 10 minutes drive. I know a wedding photographer who uses them, so that's solved. I will use them instead of CVS/Walgreens, etc.

Finding someone who does true B&W has been tough! The only lead I've got right now is on one that is about 35-40 minutes away. They do use a dip and dunk process (??) and I actually know the guy that owns the place (I didn't know they did film processing), which is a plus.

But finding someone closer... google hasn't helped at all and I'm at a loss of what to do... Could be there is no one, but being in NY I find that hard to believe.

I DO want to try true B&W and am hoping not to have to send it out.... but how happy are people with C41 B&W films? I've heard it's easier to scan (is that true)? Considering I'm new to the film world, should I just start with the C41?

Help a gal out...

😀

Thanks!

 

[whickus]

if the "pro lab" that the wedding photographer suggests only processes c41, then they're not a pro lab. my suggestion is to find a true pro lab (c41, e6, b&w, 4x5, push/pull processing, etc) and stick with them. as standard as some processes are, you're better off learning the ins & outs of one lab and building a rapport with their staff.

and just to poke the issue - if you can pour your own bowl of cereal in the morning, you can develop your own film. you're already loading, shooting and handling your own film. developing it is no more difficult.

 

[David William White]

The reason labs don't do it is because most can manage it themselves, so there is little market for it. But posting here is a great idea, because I'm certain there must be other folks in Long Island that are on here that can process it for you when they do their own.

If that doesn't work, the Kodak and Ilford C-41 chromogenic black and white films are terrific, especially if you've no intention of doing black and white printing. Readily available and you can have your negs (and scans to CD) in under an hour.

If you do find someone local who does their own processing, maybe have them show you the ropes. Once you do it yourself, the costs plummet. Like off a cliff.

 

[drewbarb]

It seems to me that you have basically answered your own questions here, Amy. I'd love it if there was a lab that did good E6 processing within a 10 minute drive of my home, but in the three plus years I've lived in Louisville, I haven't found a single lab in the whole state of Kentucky that does E6 at all, never mind quality processing.

If your research hasn't turned up what you are looking for, it's likely that the reason is that it doesn't exist; in all likelihood you'll have to do what most of the rest of us have to do too- do it yourself, or send it out to someone farther away. Living on Long Island, you are fairly close to good labs in NYC that will do good traditional B&W film processing (although even there it's getting scarce and very expensive). It may not be a 10 minute drive, but I suspect the post office is- and that may be the best answer for you.

Now, I'll poke too. You said you didn't want to get into doing your own processing. You list your reasons/fears, and seem to be aware of the rationality or lack there-of. But bear a few things in mind: you almost certainly have cleaning products in your home which are at least as toxic and dangerous as photo chemistry- if not more-so- and I doubt you worry much about using them. Processing traditional B&W film doesn't require any more care with materials or more elaborate skills than do cooking or cleaning in your home. So consider getting over it- if you can, you'll be glad you did. Not only is it easy and rewarding, but you will save LOTS of money vs. paying someone else and probably paying for shipping, too.

I hate to be recommending something your OP specifically asked that we NOT recommend, but as it seems likely that what you seek doesn't exist (a pro lab near your home that processes trad. B&W film), there doesn't seem to be much choice. Besides, if you can get past your own concerns about processing your own film, you will be glad you did. Anyway, whatever you do, good luck, and happy snaps!

 

[Quinn Porter]

Amy,

As you are in the early and exciting stage of your film experience, you probably don't mind the high cost of B&W film development. However, very quickly you will realize that processing costs add up fast. So, let me be one more who says learn to do it yourself. Film processing is very easy and rewarding.

When I first started shooting B&W I used A&I in Los Angeles for my processing. In fact, I bought a number of processing mailers from B&H. Once I tried doing my own development I never looked back. I still have some mailers, which I'll probably sell because I just can't see myself using them.

 

[wayneb]

I would definitely try the C41 b/w film first. I've had good experience with it. If you are used to photoshop, once you fully desaturate, you might not notice a difference.

For a good intro to real b/w film go to Freestyle and pick up 10 rolls of the Arista 400 (rebranded Kodak tri-x) and shoot that. http://bit.ly/YN52r You can then compare and see if the real b/w has extra magic.

 

[Bassism]

If I were not doing my own processing, I would stick with C41 b/w film. The few times I have used them I've been impressed. My grandfather who has been a photographer and teacher of photography for many years no longer uses his darkroom and uses C41 b/w exclusively.

There is a local lab here that will do b/w for the same cost as colour, but I expect that that's rare to find. For me, the real advantages to using b/w film, aside from cost savings, come especially in the developing stage, and I would lose those advantages (and the cost savings) outsourcing it to a lab.

 

[Larky]

I agree, for the time being C41 will be fine. However, I'm now going to ignore your request and tell you to try developing your own film. Here's my actual devloping method, just to prove how easy it is.

Grab the bottle of Rodinal, pour roughly what I think is 12ml into a jar. Top up to what I think looks like 600ml of cold water. Leave it to stand until I've finished my cup of tea or it has collected a film of dust.

Pour solution into the film container thing, time myself by listening to three average length songs I like. Pick up and jiggle the black jar containing the film at the end of every song. Once song three is done, I whirl it around more through paranoia that it hasn't worked.

Pour solution into toilet and flush.

Pour clean cold water into the black thing, whirl, pour out. Repeat until my hands are cold (roughly 10 pours).

Pour in the fix, repeat the same procedure of three songs with whirling around as and when I can be bothered. I normally forget the tank at this point so fix for 20 minutes.

Pour fix back into it's bottle.

Pour water in, whirl, pour out. Repeat 10-ish times then pour clean water in once more and leave it until I can be bothered to hang it on my washing line to dry.

Now, I do this exact same procedure for every film I shoot except Neopan 1600 which deserves my respect. I never measure anything, I never check temperatures. I used to, but now don't and have seen no difference in my results. This could be me being really bad at this I admit.

But yeah, C41 will be fine. 🙂

 

[whickus]

just a quick correction - arista premium is the rebranded tri-x. arista legacy is rebranded neopan and arist ultra edu is the eastern european stuff (fomapan, i believe).

I would definitely try the C41 b/w film first. I've had good experience with it. If you are used to photoshop, once you fully desaturate, you might not notice a difference.

For a good intro to real b/w film go to Freestyle and pick up 10 rolls of the Arista 400 (rebranded Kodak tri-x) and shoot that. http://bit.ly/YN52r You can then compare and see if the real b/w has extra magic.

 

[David William White]

I agree, for the time being C41 will be fine. However, I'm now going to ignore your request and tell you to try developing your own film. Here's my actual devloping method, just to prove how easy it is.

Grab the bottle of Rodinal, pour roughly what I think is 12ml into a jar. Top up to what I think looks like 600ml of cold water. Leave it to stand until I've finished my cup of tea or it has collected a film of dust.

Pour solution into the film container thing, time myself by listening to three average length songs I like. Pick up and jiggle the black jar containing the film at the end of every song. Once song three is done, I whirl it around more through paranoia that it hasn't worked.

Pour solution into toilet and flush.

Pour clean cold water into the black thing, whirl, pour out. Repeat until my hands are cold (roughly 10 pours).

Pour in the fix, repeat the same procedure of three songs with whirling around as and when I can be bothered. I normally forget the tank at this point so fix for 20 minutes.

Pour fix back into it's bottle.

Pour water in, whirl, pour out. Repeat 10-ish times then pour clean water in once more and leave it until I can be bothered to hang it on my washing line to dry.

Now, I do this exact same procedure for every film I shoot except Neopan 1600 which deserves my respect. I never measure anything, I never check temperatures. I used to, but now don't and have seen no difference in my results. This could be me being really bad at this I admit.

But yeah, C41 will be fine. 🙂

Yeah! That's the way she's done! Love the way you've put it.

 

[Bassism]

Larky's got the right idea. I like having control over my developing, but it's certainly not a scientific operation for me. Usually it comes down to "hmm, it was pretty dark. Guess I ought to leave it in there for a bit longer and quit shaking it around."

 

[DRabbit]

I agree, for the time being C41 will be fine. However, I'm now going to ignore your request and tell you to try developing your own film. Here's my actual devloping method, just to prove how easy it is.

Grab the bottle of Rodinal, pour roughly what I think is 12ml into a jar. Top up to what I think looks like 600ml of cold water. Leave it to stand until I've finished my cup of tea or it has collected a film of dust.

Pour solution into the film container thing, time myself by listening to three average length songs I like. Pick up and jiggle the black jar containing the film at the end of every song. Once song three is done, I whirl it around more through paranoia that it hasn't worked.

Pour solution into toilet and flush.

Pour clean cold water into the black thing, whirl, pour out. Repeat until my hands are cold (roughly 10 pours).

Pour in the fix, repeat the same procedure of three songs with whirling around as and when I can be bothered. I normally forget the tank at this point so fix for 20 minutes.

Pour fix back into it's bottle.

Pour water in, whirl, pour out. Repeat 10-ish times then pour clean water in once more and leave it until I can be bothered to hang it on my washing line to dry.

Now, I do this exact same procedure for every film I shoot except Neopan 1600 which deserves my respect. I never measure anything, I never check temperatures. I used to, but now don't and have seen no difference in my results. This could be me being really bad at this I admit.

But yeah, C41 will be fine. 🙂

You post is worded in such a way that you should publish the damn thing. Seriously. That's the EASIEST I've seen it explained in all the reading I've done. Every single tutorial I've read has talked about the temperature being so important and to make sure to measure precisely with beakers made for photograph developing and so on. THANK YOU.

However... there's a few things that I'm still "nervous" about.

I have this thing with chemicals... and medicines for that matter. I don't like them touching me, period. It's not like I'll run screaming from the room if it happens, it's just not something I enjoy doing AT ALL. I have a cleaning lady (to the person who said it was as easy as cooking and cleaning). And jeez, I ate take-out until my doctor told me to stop (used to be a joke in my family that I used my oven for junk food storage).

No, I'm not a nut in general... LOL... it's just one of those things.

Also, I have a cat and I smoke (yes, I know, it contradicts what I just said), so there are literally NO dust or hair-free environments in my house. My master bath is TINY. I wouldn't dry film in my main bath and that's the one my daughter uses (and she's a messy teenager). So even if I could get over the hurdle of the chemical thing - which IS possible since it's not pathological - I'm not sure I could find a good place for drying where it wouldn't end up with cat hair that floated it's way over.

No basement. Garage is already set up like a recording studio. Laundry room is no where near big enough. No empty closets (house lacks storage space with no basement).

Suggestions on drying? How long does drying take? Could I do it in a shower stall (in my master bath) in a few hours?

Also... please, someone explain to me the loading process so it's sounds as simple as Larky's processing description. I could probably wait until nighttime (I'm a night owl) and go into my daughter's bathroom to do the loading without a changing bag, but is it real easy to get it into the spool thing?


btw... I just came back from a camera store about 30 minutes away. They send out their true B&W (I guessed) and the two places they suggested are the two places I already know (the ones that aren't all that close).

The color pro-lab that is 5 minutes away didn't RECOMMEND C41... it's just that that's all they can develop in-house.

I will probably NEVER do darkroom printing. Ever. All my photography will end up scanned and managed digitally. Should I do large(r) prints (I'd never do bigger than 16x20) I'd probably send the digital file out just like I would from a digital camera. Maybe it's a mistake to think like that, but I don't have a dark room, or access to one, and can't see it happening anytime in the future. "Wet printing" is not of interest to me... at least now.

 

[Bassism]

Drying isn't necessarily the harrowing process it might seem. I also have a cat, and he's generally not allowed in my bathroom where I do my developing, but he does get in, and I don't dust my place very often in any case.

What I do is run a hot shower while I'm washing the film. This fills the air with steam and drops all the dust to the ground. Then use a drop or two of Photoflow (which changes the surface tension of the water, allowing the water to drip freely from the film. I've not had any problems with dust since I've started this routine.

Loading the reel is something that is pretty hard to explain in words, and takes a few times to get used to, but really isn't that difficult. You'll want to practice on a scrap roll of film in daylight until you're comfortable with it.

Basically, for a plastic reel all you want to do is slide the film into the reel until it catches the ball bearings. After that it's just a matter of rotating the two halves of the reel back and forth and it automatically draws the film in. Practice a few times, and you'll have it down.

As far as the chemicals go, wear a pair of rubber gloves and use a bathroom fan or some other place where you can get good ventilation. B/W chemicals are not very dangerous at all, so there's no need to treat them any more seriously than you would treat any number of cleaning products as Drew said.

Edit: I should add that it really only takes a few hours for drying. The film should be dry to the touch pretty quickly, then you'll want to leave it hanging for an hour or two more to let the emulsion dry. I've usually got my film in the scanner within three hours of hanging it up, with no issues that I can tell.

 

[DRabbit]

My bathrooms don't have fans. In my master bath I usually open the windows when I take a shower (seriously) so I'm not sure how I'd get ventilation while developing...


Oh... another question... when loading the film, can that be done in the "red light" like in darkrooms, or it has to be in complete darkness (I did do developing in highschool in a darkroom, but that was a long time ago and I don't remember)

 

[Bassism]

I don't have a fan in my bathroom either, and I just open a window while I'm doing it. You could also do the chemical parts in your (presumably) larger kitchen then transfer to the bathroom for drying.

Safelights work for printing because papers are only sensitive to certain wavelengths of light, so safelights give off that the paper can't see. Film needs to be sensitive to all visible light, so unfortunately a safelight will fog film.

 

[DRabbit]

If I open the window and it's colder than 65 degrees outside, that won't hurt the process itself? How important is temperature because all over the net, all the tutorials talk about thermometers and making sure you're at the right temp.

BTW, how much of a difference am I going to see between say C41 BW400CN and Tri-X 400 if I'm never going to do wet printing and darkroom enlargements?

 

[mfogiel]

Haha, how much good advice.
Well, I also started this way, shooting XP2 and letting it be developed by a pro lab - in Milan that is... When I started shooting true silver B&W, not even a pro lab could save me from uneven development, dust and scratches, so I gave up. The sooner you do, the better for you.

Here is a quickie:
Tri-X in Diafine:
It can be exposed between EI 200 and 1600, so that's already an advantage...
The temperature does not matter, time does not matter too much, not less than 3 mins and not more than 5 in each bath ( it is a 2 bath developer)
You can reuse the developer for a year.
You pour part A in your tank, agitate 30 sec, and then 10 secs each minute for 3.5 minutes total, same for part B.
No stop bath.
You pour your fixer, and agitate every now and then for 5-6 mins, should be sufficient.
You open your tank and wash under running water of room temperature for 10 minutes.
You pour some demineralized water with a few drops of photo flo and swirl your film for a minute.
You hang to dry in your shower - close the door to avoid dust moving around.
Once it is dry, you cut the neg, put it in a sleeve, place it under a wooden cutting board - yes the one you normally use for slicing the tomatoes... and you keep it there a couple of days to let it flatten out,
You are done.
Have fun.
And BTW get a black zipped bag for loading film in daylight.

 

[Ducky]

You don't want to hear about self processing. OK. The difference between traditional bw and c41 bw properly scanned and cleaned in PS is minimal, if at all. If you will be scanning and then printing on an inkjet, your concern is moot, go with c41 bw.

Eventually, if you stick around here long enough, you will try traditional, so run while you can before you are wet printing in your bathroom.

 

[DRabbit]

Haha, how much good advice.
Well, I also started this way, shooting XP2 and letting it be developed by a pro lab - in Milan that is... When I started shooting true silver B&W, not even a pro lab could save me from uneven development, dust and scratches, so I gave up. The sooner you do, the better for you.

Here is a quickie:
Tri-X in Diafine:
It can be exposed between EI 200 and 1600, so that's already an advantage...
The temperature does not matter, time does not matter too much, not less than 3 mins and not more than 5 in each bath ( it is a 2 bath developer)
You can reuse the developer for a year.
You pour part A in your tank, agitate 30 sec, and then 10 secs each minute for 3.5 minutes total, same for part B.
No stop bath.
You pour your fixer, and agitate every now and then for 5-6 mins, should be sufficient.
You open your tank and wash under running water of room temperature for 10 minutes.
You pour some demineralized water with a few drops of photo flo and swirl your film for a minute.
You hang to dry in your shower - close the door to avoid dust moving around.
Once it is dry, you cut the neg, put it in a sleeve, place it under a wooden cutting board - yes the one you normally use for slicing the tomatoes... and you keep it there a couple of days to let it flatten out,
You are done.
Have fun.
And BTW get a black zipped bag for loading film in daylight.

What type of fixer? (and particular brand?)

Can I avoid the changing bag if I do it at night in a dark room?

When I rewind the film a bit still sticks out. Can I cut the leader and get it started in the spool before going dark (or to changing bag). Does it have to be removed from the canister or can I cut it off when it gets to end?

 

[Bassism]

You do need a thermometer, since you need to know the temperature of your developer. It should be as close as possible to 20 C but a few degrees either way can be compensated for by changing your development time. Opening a window won't affect the temperature of your developer within the few minutes it takes to develop a roll, so don't worry about that. The temperature of the steps after developing is not at all critical.

In general, C41 b/w film is finer grained and more modern looking than something like Tri-x. But there's a whole world of choice in b/w film to suit just about any look you're going for. In any case, the differences are minimal at best, and not something I'd worry about.

Without a changing bag, you'll need a perfectly dark room. If you can wait a few minutes and have your eyes adjust to be able to see, it's probably too bright and you'll have your film fogged.

I use Ilford Rapid Fixer, since it's cheap, easy, and works.

I do my film the way you describe. There is a risk of having a big piece of dust in the felt scratch your film if you do it this way, but I have no problems.