B&W processing workflow?

[joachim]

Hi,

I am wondering whether to go back into developing B&W film. Where I live these days, commercial processing is hard to come by, in particular for 120 film.

In the early 80ies I use to process my own 35mm film. I had a small tank, which could hold a single role of 135 film (these days I would like to do 120 film instead/additionally) . I loaded the film in the dark room, heated up/prepared the chemicals, did the processing (hand agitation) : development, stop, fix, wash and wetting agent (water was really hard) and put the film to dry. The effort (not including drying) was about 1.5h to 2h, just to get a single roll processed.

These days I do not have that time any more 🙁 , so question: What are you folks doing work flow wise to process your film? I know I could use a tank which holds 2 rolls, which would half the time per roll, but there are limits to this. Different films take different times (I used to use the entire Ilford range: Pan F, FP4, HP5, never settled), larger tanks holding many rolls are quite unwieldy regarding hand agitation. How would a tank holding two 120 films look like?

Thanks
Joachim

 

[nikon_sam]

I use Paterson tanks and always load two rolls of 120 per reel...if I have to I can use the Paterson three reel tank and load two reels (four rolls) of 120...
Now you can check the charts to see if you can develop two different film types for the same amount of time to save time...if not there's really nothing you can do to speed this process up...
And as others will chime in about Paterson reels they have to be completely dry to load them easily...

 

[Doug]

One of the nice things about Diafine developer is that it's the same time/temp for all films; you just use the suggested ISO (or your own choice based on experience) when you shoot. And you can relax because the time is not critical at all.

I use a 4-reel Kinderman tank for two rolls of 120, or 1 roll 120 and 2 rolls 35... with room left over. Getting into this size tank, pour-in and pour-out time gets significant, so for critically timed developement (like C41) I use two tanks in the water bath and just use a lift rod to pull the reels out of the developer quickly and drop them into the next tank with its chemistry... much faster than pouring, but need to do it in the dark by feel. 🙂

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

I use steel tanks: 15 oz tank holds two 35mm reels or one 120, and 32 oz tank holds four 35mm reels or two 120. This is the biggest tank that is easy to agitate by inversion.

-Develop for whatever the dev. time is for your film/developer combination. Agitate first 30 seconds then 2 inversions ever 30 seconds with most developers.

-fill and dump tank with water the same temp as the developer two times to rinse out developer

-Fix with Ilford Rapid Fix for 5 minutes. Agitate first 30 seconds then 5 inversions every 30 seconds.

-Wash in running water 20 minutes.

-Wetting agent mixed using distilled water for one minute. I use Kodak Photo-Flo

Takes about one hour with most film/dev. combinations.

See my tested developing times and film speeds here

 

[joachim]

Hi,

Thanks for the useful replies to my question. So far the answer seems to be, use a larger tank and develop a couple of films at the same time to make things more efficient. It seems tanks as large as about 1 liter (quarter gallon) are manageable. Further comments/ideas would be appreciated.

Thanks
Joachim

 

[f/14]

Not sure there is much time to be saved. Rather the trick seems to be to gather up some film and make a concentrated one-evening effort now and then. Guess the procedures are much the same for everyone, but here is mine:
4 Paterson tanks to solve the problem of different film types and/or save time.
2x the smaller one for 2x35mmm or 1x120
1x mid size tank for 5x35mm or 3x120
1x large tank for 8x35mm or 5x120.
Filled them all up with spools plus some extra so you do not have to wait for them to dry.
The beauty of the Paterson tanks is the speed with which they can be filled and emptied. Means you will have consistent development times.
Thread 2 120 films on each spool.
Develop in XTOL 1+1 and throw away the liquid after first development.
Leaves enough developer power in the tank to have two 120 films per spool.
Rotate slowly for first 30 seconds. From there on 3 rotations over 10 seconds every minute.
Development time is probably for everyone to fine tune for himself.
Fix in Tetenal standard fix. 10 minutes, exept for TMax that seems to need 20 minutes for the base to clear completely.
Rinse for 30 minutes reducing temperature to tap water value over a few minutes.
30 seconds in water with Kodak Photo-Flo. (Can not get the good old Johnson Wetting Agent any more.)
Hang to dry with a weight at the bottom. Wipe water off with fingers.
Must admit that with 25Mp digital (D3x) and 13 f-stops dynamic range it is more and more tempting to go digital B/W permanently.

 

[MartinP]

It is also handy to have some spare reels, to allow you to do two runs 'back-to-back' without worrying about getting the reels dry. This is only if you use plastic reels - apparently steel ones are not so much of a problem, which is handy considering the cost.

A useful source for spare plastic reels are junk-shops and flea-markets, as people are dumping their old gear quite often. Using the sort with a wide loading lip sounds easier for 120, but then there is more risk of damage to the film when you get it out of the reel because you have to open the reel completely instead of unwinding the roll with a slight curve across the film width.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Consider a CPE-2: 5 rolls of 35 at a time, or 6x 120 (you can load two 120, end to end, on a Jobo reel).

Cheers,

R.

 

[Mablo]

If you can get 20C tap water things will become much quicker.

1. load the film into the reel in a changing bag (5mins)
2. dilute your developer with 20C water. Rodinal or HC-110 are very fast to prepare.
3. Agitate the tank (appr. 10mins) - this is the most boring part of the process.
4. wash (5mins)
5. Fix (6mins)
7. Put the tank under 20C running water (10mins) and get yourself a cup of coffee. Lastly drop the reel in diluted wetting agent for 30 secs.

That makes 30-40mins in total for the development of 2 x 120 rolls or 4 x 135 rolls. You can even operate two one liter tanks simultaneously and double the amount of reels developed.

Try to find a small inexpensive film dryer (mine is a Kindermann Rapid Dryer) and you can start scanning the negatives after an hour of drying.

 

[Johnmcd]

Was using a Patterson plastic tank but switched back to steel after experiencing humidity problems inside the change bag that caused the film to 'stick' rather than slide through the plastic reel (I used to use steel many years ago). Made sure though that I bought a Hewes reel from B&H. Now find I can load quickly and with no problems.

My chemicals are always the same:

Dev Ilford Ilfosol 3 @ 1+14 (one shot)
Stop Tap water
Fix Ilford Rapid Fix @ 1+5 (reuse a couple of times)
Kodak Photo-Flo
All at 20 degrees C.

Develop at recommended time with 4 inversions every 60 seconds (tap to dislodge any bubbles after inversions)

Stop bath - fill and invert 10 times then empty

Fix - 5 mins with 4 inversions every minute

Wash - Ilford method. Fill then 5 inversions then empty, refill then 10 inversion then empty, refill then 20 inversions. Use Photo-flo as directed. Then hang in bathroom (less dust).

Cheers,

John

 

[f/14]

Oh yes, - forgot the Tetenal Indicator Stop Bath to stop the development in a controlled way.

 

[joachim]

Consider a CPE-2: 5 rolls of 35 at a time, or 6x 120 (you can load two 120, end to end, on a Jobo reel).

Cheers,

R.

Hi Roger,

I assume you are discussing Jobo filmprocessors here. Aren't they discontinued?

J.

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

Hi Roger,

I assume you are discussing Jobo filmprocessors here. Aren't they discontinued?

J.

Yes. and used ones are getting really expensive!

 

[joachim]

If you can get 20C tap water things will become much quicker.

1. load the film into the reel in a changing bag (5mins)
2. dilute your developer with 20C water. Rodinal or HC-110 are very fast to prepare.
3. Agitate the tank (appr. 10mins) - this is the most boring part of the process.
4. wash (5mins)
5. Fix (6mins)
7. Put the tank under 20C running water (10mins) and get yourself a cup of coffee. Lastly drop the reel in diluted wetting agent for 30 secs.

That makes 30-40mins in total for the development of 2 x 120 rolls or 4 x 135 rolls. You can even operate two one liter tanks simultaneously and double the amount of reels developed.

Try to find a small inexpensive film dryer (mine is a Kindermann Rapid Dryer) and you can start scanning the negatives after an hour of drying.

Tap water here more than often comes at 10°C!

 

[joachim]

Yes. and used ones are getting really expensive!

And they are expensive to ship!

 

[joachim]

Wash - Ilford method. Fill then 5 inversions then empty, refill then 10 inversion then empty, refill then 20 inversions. Use Photo-flo as directed.

Hi John,

is that archival? I used to use a Jobo cascade washer and rinsed 5min under flowing water.

Thanks
J.

 

[Johnmcd]

Hi John,

is that archival? I used to use a Jobo cascade washer and rinsed 5min under flowing water.

Thanks
J.

Hi Joachim,

Here is the text straight from the Ilfosol 3 directions,
For spiral tank use, when a non-hardening fixer has been used, the following method of washing is recommended. This method is faster, uses less water yet still gives negatives which are suitable for long term storage.

Non hardener fixer washing method

After fixing, fill the spiral tank with water at the same temperature , +/- 5ºC (9ºF), as the processing solutions and invert it 5 times. Drain the water away and refill. Invert the tank 10 times. Once more, drain the water away and refill. Finally, invert the tank twenty times and drain the water away.


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]This info can be found here,[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/201142795941192.pdf[/FONT]

In NSW Australia we just went through many years of drought where weren't even allowed to wash our cars. Running the tap for 5mins was not an option 🙂

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Cheers,[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]John
[/FONT]

 

[Proteus617]

The effort (not including drying) was about 1.5h to 2h, just to get a single roll processed.

2 hours? Here' my method. The darkbag and tray (with tank and reels inside) are next to the couch. The ammo case with the chems is next to the coffee machine. If I am watching television, I load a reel, then move it to the ammo case. It may sit in the tank for days before I develop. When I am messing around in the kitchen, I fill a coffee pot with 20C water. My developer is one-shot (Rodinal), so it cuts down on the mixing and glassware. My coffee cup is a 500ml beaker. Everything gets timed on the kitchen timer. A few minutes pre-wash, 12 min dev, 6 min fix, 15 min wash then photoflow. As you don't have a rigorous agitation regime during wash, you could be doing the dishes, so that's 2 rolls in 20 minutes.

 

[joachim]

Hi Joachim,

Here is the text straight from the Ilfosol 3 directions,
For spiral tank use, when a non-hardening fixer has been used, the following method of washing is recommended. This method is faster, uses less water yet still gives negatives which are suitable for long term storage.

Non hardener fixer washing method

After fixing, fill the spiral tank with water at the same temperature , +/- 5ºC (9ºF), as the processing solutions and invert it 5 times. Drain the water away and refill. Invert the tank 10 times. Once more, drain the water away and refill. Finally, invert the tank twenty times and drain the water away.


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]This info can be found here,[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/201142795941192.pdf[/FONT]

In NSW Australia we just went through many years of drought where weren't even allowed to wash our cars. Running the tap for 5mins was not an option 🙂

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Cheers,[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]John
[/FONT]

Hi John,

Thanks for the info. Running the tap for 5min makes one feel bad. That is why I found your contribution so attractive. By the way, Ilford also describes this in their ID11/Microphen/Perceptol documentation.

Joachim

 

[mathomas]

I haven't needed to do multiple rolls yet, but the number-one timesaver for me must be that I (fortunately) can develop in my basement, which is naturally fairly temp controlled. I just leave my mixed chems (Diafine) or one-shot chems (Rodinal) and distilled water on the shelves in my basement dark(bath)room. Everything is the right temp, or close enough. If I need to "make" some water, I just put a thermometer in a beaker and play with the water controls as it fills, until it matches the ambient temps. I really need to just keep a bunch of tap water at room temp on hand, and the last bit goes away too.

The Ilford wash is a huge timesaver. I do a doubled version of that, and used tap water for the first few agitations, then distilled for the last.

It's the scanning, spotting, adjusting, etc. that comes later that really slows me down!