B17 (909) Crash

plummerl

plummerl

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My heart goes out to all those connected with the crash of the B17G (the 909) in Connecticut last Wednesday.

The plane had special significance to me. My father, daughter and I flew on it, out of Boeing Field in Seattle, in 2008 & 2009. It was truly an awesome experience.

Quite the memories.

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b17

b17

As the owner of two vintage aircraft (both built in 1946) and knowing how the Collings Foundation operates, I can assure everyone that this aircraft was very well maintained and loved. The guy flying in the picture, Mac, had around 7000 hours in the B17.

Just a tragic accident...
 
I believe this B-17 was one of the three that I helped convert into crop dusters in 1963. They were used to spread swaths of Mirex for several years in an attempt to stop the intrusion of fire ants. That program was stopped when it appeared unsuccessful and those B-17's went to other uses.

Sadly, Leroy Brown, the aviator I worked for back then, passed away last year. He lived nearby and we would visit occasionally. He started as a crop duster in 1936 and was a Captain for both National Airlines and PanAm. He was infamous for the volume of FAA citations he received for flying his B-17 solo. Finally the FAA rescinded all of them as there was no regulation against flying a B-17 without a co-pilot just documentation that it supposedly could not be done.
 
I lived in Seattle during the war and after. I remember Boeing field well. I was in the back seat of a Desoto driving next to the field when a test 707 went right by us and seemed to go vertically up. The B-17 were something special too bad about the crash.
 
charjohncarter said:
I lived in Seattle during the war and after. I remember Boeing field well. I was in the back seat of a Desoto driving next to the field when a test 707 went right by us and seemed to go vertically up. The B-17 were something special too bad about the crash.
Click to expand...

The only airplane I ever saw do that was a U2. It made an unbelievable noise then suddenly took off appearing like something shot from a rubber band. It didn't go quite vertical but was really only a few degrees off. It didn't take long for it to disappear from sight. I remember a couple of pilots seeing about the same time as I did and commenting on it as well.

I used to know a man who had worked somewhere in Turkey in the late 50s early 60s. He said at random times all aircraft at the base would be fired up and revved to the max noisy for a period of time. During one of those times, a U2 might take off.

Sad about the B-17. They were incredibly air worthy. I used to have a book showing one returning from a mission with almost all of its vertical stabilizer missing.

More sad for the people on the aircraft. Prayers for the survivors and the families of those who didn't survive.
 
Very sad story. May they and their families find peace.

Regarding the appearance of rising just vertically - there are many types of camouflage or illusions and one is called "motion camouflage". By traveling at a certain angle and velocity relative to another object, which is at angle (in this case vertically), the motion appears to be on only one axis of the vector. Fighter pilots do this sometimes, as well as insects! To the prey, they don't sense oncoming motion. So, riding in a car and your view of it matching the angular ascent of the 707, it may appear to be going straight up. I have probably explained this poorly.
 
Small world, more connections here than I would have expected. I too flew in this plane, know people in that circle. Very sad.

Cause? Way too early to know.
 
It gets worse

It gets worse

charjohncarter said:
I lived in Seattle during the war and after. I remember Boeing field well. I was in the back seat of a Desoto driving next to the field when a test 707 went right by us and seemed to go vertically up. The B-17 were something special too bad about the crash.
Click to expand...

In the middle 60"s I was in the Navy stationed at Sand Point NAS and got free tickets to the Sea Fair speed boat races on Lake Washington. Boeing had one of the brand new 707s do a fly by to start the thing off, the pilot who I later found out was quite famous for this sort of stunt did a barrel roll with it for everyone's amazement.
 
I was able to visit this plane back in 2016 during the Wings of Freedom Tour stop in Roanoke.

https://flic.kr/s/aHsjz8CrmK

One of the lighter moments came when the B-17 first landed, and when it taxied to its stop a line of folks behind the fence got treated to a stiff breeze.


Big Wind by P F McFarland, on Flickr

You can see how the black jacket on the gentleman holding on to his cap in the right center of the scene is flapping really hard. Just to the right, the guy facing backwards is looking to see where his cap got off to.

I noticed the B-17 was somewhat high maintenance, and the crew was always doing some work on the plane, even while folks were taking a tour. All their aircraft got the same treatment, so not many visitors thought it possible they would ever fail. But it happens, and the crews were always erring on the safe side when the go-no go decision was made.

God rest their souls.

PF
 
B-17 Fuddy Duddy flew in to a music and air fair held at Floyd Bennett Field a dozen years ago.
I went on a tour inside. I would never want to fly in one. Fortunately some brave folks did.

Chris
 
oftheherd said:
The only airplane I ever saw do that was a U2. It made an unbelievable noise then suddenly took off appearing like something shot from a rubber band. It didn't go quite vertical but was really only a few degrees off. It didn't take long for it to disappear from sight. I remember a couple of pilots seeing about the same time as I did and commenting on it as well.

I used to know a man who had worked somewhere in Turkey in the late 50s early 60s. He said at random times all aircraft at the base would be fired up and revved to the max noisy for a period of time. During one of those times, a U2 might take off.

Sad about the B-17. They were incredibly air worthy. I used to have a book showing one returning from a mission with almost all of its vertical stabilizer missing.

More sad for the people on the aircraft. Prayers for the survivors and the families of those who didn't survive.
Click to expand...

It didn't go vertical, but when you were used to seeing DC-3s and DC-6s take off it seemed vertical. I also saw a U2 in about 1971 while riding out to the beach near Howard Air Force base. I couldn't see the taxi but it did seem vertical. We had no idea what it was, as it was classified at that time.
 
Darthfeeble said:
In the middle 60"s I was in the Navy stationed at Sand Point NAS and got free tickets to the Sea Fair speed boat races on Lake Washington. Boeing had one of the brand new 707s do a fly by to start the thing off, the pilot who I later found out was quite famous for this sort of stunt did a barrel roll with it for everyone's amazement.
Click to expand...

I think that test pilot got a talking to from Bill Boeing after that stunt. But they agreed that he wouldn't do it again. Those guys were crazy remember Mira Slovak?
 
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