Leica LTM Baffled

[350D_user]

I've just processed, and printed, my first film done with the Leica and the Industar-22 collapsable. All the photos bar one are badly out of focus, those photos I'd tried using the hyperfocus technique, and set the lens to focus at just beyond 10m, varying the aperture between f/5.6 and f/11. Those photos include landscape shots... not one is a close-up of anything.

The only decent one, was a guesstimated distance one. I'd judged the distance to be 2m, the aperture was set to f/8. It came out acceptable, especially as it's the first film with that lens.

Previously, I'd used a Jupiter-8 on the camera, and distinctly remember not budging the focus from 7m, but altering the aperture between f/5.6 and f/11. Those photos aren't pin-sharp, but you can make out peoples facial expressions in the various photos.

Erm... any ideas or hints about the problem, or hyperfocal focussing in general? I thought I had it figured out, with the lens set at just beyond 10m and the aperture not greater than f/5.6...

Photos will follow, once they're dried out.

 

[Austerby]

Presumably the lens was not collapsed when the photo's were being taken? (we've all been there...)

 

[Ash]

It may be the lens. Or your technique.

Try again with a short roll (if you bulk roll) at known distances. If everything is out of focus at 1m,5m,10m, infinity, then it's the lens.

If things are in focus at known distances, it's you.

 

[350D_user]

Presumably the lens was not collapsed when the photo's were being taken? (we've all been there...)

Heh, nope, the lens was always extended.

 

[350D_user]

It may be the lens. Or your technique.

Try again with a short roll (if you bulk roll) at known distances. If everything is out of focus at 1m,5m,10m, infinity, then it's the lens.

If things are in focus at known distances, it's you.

That's what I was wondering. The guesstimated photo is not as badly focussed as the others. But to have landscape photos badly out of focus... it's that that I'm finding hard to understand.
I'm accepting the possibility of lens flare and other old lens "features".

Another thought that's just occurred... are these Industar-22's known to work with Leicas?

Once the prints are fully dry, I'll put two up.

 

[350D_user]

Hyperfocal will give tack sharp at it's set distance. It will give acceptable at a little before or after. But not at every distance.
At f11 and 10m, your range of acceptable will be about 3.5m to infinity.

So... with that, stuff between 3.5m and 10m will be slightly out of focus, whatever's 10m away will be in focus, anything beyond 10m will be out again? Or anything between 3.5m and infinity will be in focus?

And this is not going to allow much in the way of enlargement.

One step at a time.

Ok, the two photos...:
- 10m, f/8 (exposure issues aside... I know that's at fault).
- guesstimated 2m, f/8

 

[350D_user]

Another thought. You said the J8 was not great either. It is possible that the lens register distance is wrong at the lens mount.

Aye, I'm aware of that possibility, but I'm accepting the possibility that I'd not quite got the setup figured out (new camera (and type), lens).

It may be one of the bodies that had non standard distance. The lenses were fitted for just that body.

I'm unaware of Leica Standards having to have specifically-adjusted lenses. I know of the old Leicas having to have that, I seem to recall that they had register numbers (?) on them.

If it's any help, the speed dial on mine has the 20-1 marking... it's not the older sort, according to http://www.ozdoba.net/leica/schraub_I_C_Standard_e.html

 

[350D_user]

That looks like more than a missed focus point.

When you hyperfocal, you have to consider the loss of DOF as you open the lens.

Yup.

For it to be real useful. You need to use F11 or 16 and a set distance of say 4-6m.

Hmm. So, the DOF markings on the lens... the desired (or useful) aperture should line up with the infinity marking on the lens? 5m shows f/11 being just that.

The only reasons I'm attempting to use hyperfocal focussing, is that I have no rangefinder for this Standard yet, and I'm bobbins at guessing distances.

 

[Limpovitj]

Heh, nope, the lens was always extended.

Just a thought: was it extended and locked? There was a thread about this a while back. Someone had problems, similar to yours, with his new collapsible lens (was it a Summitar?). Turns out, he had missed to you have to twist-and-lock it in extended position. Could be, maybe?

 

[350D_user]

Just a thought: was it extended and locked? There was a thread about this a while back. Someone had problems, similar to yours, with his new collapsible lens (was it a Summitar?). Turns out, he had missed to you have to twist-and-lock it in extended position. Could be, maybe?

Aha... if I extend the lens, it goes to a certain length... obviously. I wasn't aware of having to twist the lens to lock it in place.

... and doing so, the lens seems to extend just a tad further.

Thanks for the pointer.

 

[Ash]

Leica I's require a specific lens registration, due to the mount. Leica Standards are built to accept L39 lenses. I've used a Summicron, I-10 (Fed-50) and an I-50. They were all fine.

You need to remember that a LS isn't a point and shoot camera. It CAN be, but only with some practice, pre-emptiveness, and quick thinking.

You need to try and focus it on something.

Best way I can explain is with photo's I've taken.

http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=9040683&blogID=249245478

No2, the tree. I was maybe 4-5meters away. I guess how far a meter was, then counted the number of huge steps/meters the tree was, then set the lens. I then set it to f/5.6 I believe. That gave me room to spare either side of the 4.5m I selected on the lens. Same for No3.

No4 - I wanted a closeup shot, to show bokeh of the lens wide open so I guessed a meter away then placed the camera there. I tried to make sure there was something before and after my mark, so if the centre was out of focus, SOMETHING would be - a good indication of if I'm mentally measuring long or short.

No5, 2 meters, wide open.

No6, stopped the lens down to about f/11 or thereabouts. Focused at 8m I think. That gave me a huge DOF either side, but the background and direct foreground are out of focus.


It's all practice.

You need to focus on something. And remember, infinity means the moon, not the nearby Tesco/Sainsbury's. You want to focus so your DoF ends at infinity, not starts.

This photo shows that last point - I focused on past the sign, but I knew it would be in focus, but the background just about came in focus as well. You can't rely on the Industar lens to give pin-sharp images without correct RF focusing.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y43/second-belated/standardpics/Untitled-24_sm.jpg

 

[350D_user]

Well, I know the first few rolls of film in any "new to the user" camera are going to be rubbish. However, that last roll was shot without me knowing about locking the lens in place. I've just shot another 24 film, making sure the lens was locked in place everytime the camera was used. I also tried your suggestion of focussing at 1m, 2m, 5m etc....

I'm now waiting for this Beechams powders stuff to kick in (urgh), then I'll get the roll processed.

As always, thanks for the hints and help. Such stuff is always appreciated.

 

[Graybeard]

FWIW

I've had just the same problem with an Industar-22 on a IIIc. Focus was perfect with the black J-8 I normally used on the camera (it was, and still is a go-everywhere Leica) but when I fitted a newly acquired I-22, everything was out of focus.

I eventually found that the rear lens element was loose and free to move a bit between the retaining ring and it proper rest point- this wasn't obvious becasue that element in down inside the lens tube.

I tightened the retaining ring gently with a homemade tool and the problem disappeared, in fact, it is quite a sharp lens now.

 

[350D_user]

Ok, I've just processed the film. Giving a few shots a quick look over with a x5 loupe, I can actually make out ripples on the surface of water.

Fingers crossed... it's looking promising.

I checked the rear element of the lens as well, it's very secure.

 

[350D_user]

Yep, problem solved. It was the fact that I didn't know about having to lock the lens in place. Consequently, the rear element was closer to the film plane than what it should've been. Tonights darkroom session's got acceptable results... considering it's my third film through the camera.

Once again, thanks for the help offered... it's much appreciated.

Edit... the proof's in the picture, apparently...:


"Spring and port wine"