Barnack viewfinder/rangefinder patch

[jett]

I'm thinking about Leica IIIc/IIIf.

1. Roughly, what is the viewfinder magnification? Or how is it relative to the Retina IIc/IIIc; The IIc/IIIc to me is squinty, but good enough.

2. In general, how does the rangefinder patch fare? From my limited experience, my German Retina patches (IIc/IIIc) are much better than my Japanese patches (KAS2, Canon P, Olympus XA). I'd probably get one from keh.com so that if it isn't to my liking, I can return it but I'd like to know what I'm getting into.

 

[wolves3012]

The VF is roughly x0.5/0.6 and the RF (I believe) is x1.5. Both are a bit squinty but surprisingly easy to use. As for the RF patch, that depends a lot on the state of the half-mirror. Given a good mirror, it's very easy to see. I have never used the Retina so can't offer an opinion or comparison.

 

[NeeZee]

From your post I'm not sure you are aware that the screwmount Leicas DON'T have a combined VF/RF. There are two separate windows for that:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/257/sucherzb5.jpg/

VF is pretty small, without brightlines. Smaller than the one on the Retinas as far as I remember. I always use external finders - got used to using them very quickly.

That said, I love my IIIf, i shoot 60% of my photos with that little thing (the other 40% with an XA, as I always have that one with me). Still good shooters if you allow some time to learn its operation and film loading process (don't give up in the first few weekss and it will pay off 🙂 ).

 

[Brian Legge]

Definitely smaller than the Retina though not by a huge amount. I have to have the IIIc closer to my eye to see the whole window. I actually like using the split finder at times as I'm more confident that my accuracy is correct.

The distance between the rangefinder and viewfinder is far enough on the III though that bothers me. The later Leicas like the IIIc/IIIf are fine.

 

[MaZo]

Having compared RF of an M2 with newly acquired IIIf I must admit I prefer screwmount camera in this regard. The RF picture is like close-up - much bigger than M2's rectangle and thus easier to focus, especially convenient for those wearing glasses like me. IIIf's VF is another story though as the view is obscured more or less by the lens, depending on the physical length of the glass attached. So probably sometimes external viewfinder is the way to go.

 

[jett]

I am aware of the separate windows.

I want a not-so-expensive non-folder RF, so I'm looking into my options.

 

[NeeZee]

I think you have already found the answer. The IIIc and IIIf are almost identical. If you think you will never use flash with the camera, get whatever you get the best deal for in a decent condition. If you like to have the flash option it's the IIIf.

 

[250swb]

The last time I looked through a Retina was twenty years ago, so can't remember much about it. But as a spectacle wearer, and thus somebody who pushes rangefinder optics to the limit of what is possible to see, a IIIf is very easy to focus accurately and then frame. A well sorted Barnack Leica is a joy to use. The practicalities of going beyond the 50mm frame though should be taken into account, changing viewfinders as well as lenses can result in a cluttered camera bag, so its a slow camera to use if you like a variety of lenses. I tend to stick to one focal length and work with that.

Steve

 

[Paul Luscher]

Would agree with above comments.

A bit squinty, but actually very easy to use. I shoot a lot in low light, and under those conditions, I've found the rangefinder in my Barnack to be as easy to use and as accurate as the rangefinder in my M--and in fact a lot better in focusing than certain SLRs I've used....

 

[39per1]

I've got a IIIc (1946) and a IIIf (1951, black dial).....the differences among them:
1- the IIIf seems better built;
2- the shutter sound is louder in the IIIc, on IIIf sound is softer than on the M2, don't know why.....
3- IIIc, even if heavily used by previos owner(s?) still works.......IIIf, after about 8/9 month without use, has a faulty shutter......I can ear the shutter sound but curtains are stucked...🙁
In any case, view finder is narrow and cover the 50mm lens field of view.....the rangefinder is good, contrasty and easy to use with is wide magnification......in my use, is faster than the 0.72 range/view finder of the M2.....
Hope this could help.....

 

[burancap]

Just to add as mentioned already...

My concerns about the RF/VF on the IIIc/f were dispelled the very first time I put the camera to my eye.

I really enjoy using it.

 

[David Hughes]

I am aware of the separate windows.

I want a not-so-expensive non-folder RF, so I'm looking into my options.

As you didn't mention Leica in this post I wonder if you are restricting yourself somewhat. They are a bit of an acquired taste...

Regards, David

 

[Spicy]

I would suggest either sending an email to Youxin Ye (in Boston) and asking to buy one from him, or finding a nice one nearby, buying it, and then sending it to him for a CLA, and also ask him to install the Japanese beamsplitter. It ups the contrast, one yellow one blue, unifying to neutral color.

He installed it for me when I went to visit his house in Nov to buy an M4-P. Makes focusing easier than on the M (in terms of once it's aligned it just punches you in the face with how perfectly focused it is), IMO. Just annoying that it's a) not a unified RF/VF, and b) that the VF is so small. I thought originally that the RF being squinty would be a deal-breaker, but I actually prefer it being 1.5x magnification

 

[traveler_101]

Yes, get one from Youxin. I just bought a real nice 1951 iiif with an elmar 3.5 from him. He CLA'd both the camera and the lens and put the Japanese beam splitter in, plus he threw in a nice leather case. It was not terribly expensive and he is a very good person to work with. Heck you get something delivered to you that works! I think this is better than fooling around with something that will be need to be sent for a CLA anyway--unless you can do your own work or can hit flea markets and yard sales to get stuff really cheaply.

I wear spectacles and I've reached the age where my eyes are beginning to deteriorate. I really appreciate the 1.5x RF and for the most part have no trouble focusing it--though in dim light conditions it isn't as easy. The viewfinder is much easier to use than I was lead to believe. However, I should point out that my first RF camera, very reasonably priced Voigtlander Bessa-T, is actually even easier to focus than the Leica. Same 1.5 magnification, but a much more distinct RF patch. The disadvantage with that model of the Bessa is that you must use an external viewfinder. Some people don't like that but I don't mind, though it makes the camera less portable. I use a clear brightline Olympus VF-1 finder, teamed up with a VC 35/2.5 Color Skopar lens.

The advantage with the Leica iiif over virtually any other camera is size. It's incredibly compact, the Elmar lens collapses into the camera and if you stick to the 50mm FOV there's no need for an external viewfinder: it is a pocketable camera, wonderful to carry around.

I kept both cameras. If I want to shoot 35 I grab the Bessa; for 50 there is the Leica. Carry both and you get two FOVs without lens changing.

 

[MaxElmar]

I'm super happy with the Japanese beamsplitter in one of my Barnacks as installed by Youxin Ye - it's really quite an amazing difference. Very similar to a modern Bessa T. (Same material, perhaps?) Highly recommended.

Just forget the built in VF and get a SBOOI - best of both worlds. Seriously.