Barry Goldwater

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I never had anything in common politically with Goldwater (in fact my dad worked for the other Senator from Arizona, a Democrat), but there is no denying his love of Arizona's natural beauty, and of Native American culture. He was pretty well known locally as a photographer, and occasionally had some stuff published in Arizona Highways.

Back in 1964, when the first skateboards came out (version 1.0, with steel wheels nailed to a plank), his driveway on Scorpion Hill was *the* magnet for us boarders. Goldwater's security guards were pretty cool about it, but after he nailed down the GOP presidential nomination the Secret Service showed up, and they were *******s about chasing us out of there (in fairness, this was less than a year after JFK's assassination, and they were jumpy). Goldwater was gone a lot, but there was a steady stream of local ham operators going up to operate his MARS station, which ran phone patch traffic 24/7 to troops in Vietnam. For most of the war, that was about the only way the troops could call home.
 
bmattock said:
And that is why I never posted a link to Goldwater's photography webpage on RFF.

I'm tired of haters. Go away. No wait. I will.
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Wow, Bill; no need to blow a gasket. The irony of your use of the word "haters" here doesn't escape me, but I'll just say that if you think you're entitled to your opinion, perhaps I'm entitled to mine.

And there's not "hate" in my statement above. Never thought that calling someone "talented" could be twisted into being called "hate".

So I retract my statement: he's not talented. And he was as full of love as Gandhi. I hope that makes me a lover.

Oh, btw: don't forget, sociopath Frank G. is watching. We should do more semantical catfights just for his psychotic amusement.
 
anselwannab said:
Damn, now that is funny.

I liked the last one with the rays of light streaming from the tree.
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OK, I may be on to the path to nutability: what light streaming from a tree? I recall having a photo like that (btw, yuck); if you can point me to it, I'll remove it because it's just beyond banal. I do a lot of banal photography just to keep me sane. And I don't say that to be witty; dat be da truth. Word.
 
Gabriel M.A. said:
Wow, Bill; no need to blow a gasket. The irony of your use of the word "haters" here doesn't escape me, but I'll just say that if you think you're entitled to your opinion, perhaps I'm entitled to mine.

And there's not "hate" in my statement above. Never thought that calling someone "talented" could be twisted into being called "hate".

So I retract my statement: he's not talented. And he was as full of love as Gandhi. I hope that makes me a lover.

Oh, btw: don't forget, sociopath Frank G. is watching. We should do more semantical catfights just for his psychotic amusement.
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Gabriel, I'm sorry. I should not have 'blown a gasket'. All I can say in my defense is that I have known about the website in question for some time, and as much as I wanted to post about it, I did not, because I happen to be a fan of the late Senator Goldwater, and I knew in my heart someone would choose to inject their own personal opinion of the man ("nutjob") into the conversation. I was pre-cringing, as it were, when I saw the thread appear.

I go quite a ways to avoid saying things that I believe but that I know will hurt others, such as my opinions of their religion or their political beliefs. And I already know I'm in the minority here on RFF - too often, people post things about this politician or that with a comment that not only indicates their dislike, but their assumption that everyone else on RFF shares that viewpoint. I try to bite my tongue, but I guess I have a short fuse sometimes.

I will leave this thread alone in the future, because it is hard for me to see someone I admire be denigrated. I apologize for taking offense at your calling Goldwater a "nutjob."

As far as you-know-who and his sad little coterie of butt-sniffers, I can't control what mentally ill people do. I hope he gets help at some point, and his little sycophants find something else to do with their time. But I suppose if he didn't stalk us, he'd be after Jodie Foster.
 
Ah, yes, Goldwater... hater of "The New Deal" that brought this country out of the depression, kept the unwashed masses from starving, and provided for a meager safety net for those of us not born with big fat trust funds from starving to death when capitalism has one of its unfortunate downward cycles after the robber barons (then and now - for "now" Google "Subprime mortgage mess") have finished with their exploitation of us. Whadda guy. Starve the beast!!! (...and feed its "meals" to the industrial-military complex.)

One of two of the "old-school" RWers who were said to "have class" - along with silver spoon born, yacht sailin', Manhattan guzzelin' elitist trust fund baby and skull-n-bones snob"Bill Buckley" extolling the "out of touch" Ayn Randian-virtues of "the human spirit to overcome any and all" and "personal accountability" (but no mention of the enormous wealth he inherited that "assisted" in this regard, providing him with a rather "obstical-less" existance, and which allowed for his "career" as writer of political columns and host of political talk shows)...

... as he fought for segregation, and put forth such intellectual gems as "only the educated should be allowed to vote".

But, I guess, in comparison to the "Glenn Becks" and "Sean Hannitys" and "Bill O'Reillys" of the world today, and the Senator McCarthys of their era, the likes of old-school Goldwater and Buckley did have class, relatively speaking.

But - anyway, a guy who likes to take pics can't be all bad. Even if he is from "the dark side".

Thanks for the link.
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No problem, Bill.

Perhaps I should explain my atomic use of the broad word "nutjob": when people aren't conventionally normal, society brands them as "particular" at best, "different" in general, or "abnormal" at worst.

Often, when somebody believes in things that are generally thought of as "at odds" with each other, they tend to be misunderstood (proportionally at how "at odds" these things are). Being friends of people of the likes of McCarthy and JFK, and disliked LBJ and Nixon alike, well, that would cast you as an oddball in the current political climate. Most things are about polarization, nowadays, in this age of specialization.

People either admire or are untrusting of somebody who does more than one thing "well" or "with dedication".

Like quoting things a lot :angel:

Anyway, I should finish by saying that many people confuse "dedication" with "obsession". Goldwater was dedicated to his ideals, many of which were not my cup of tea, but very admirable nonetheless; some much less -- but that's a different debate, and done ad nauseaum. He was consistent in his beliefs, and thought of the well-being of others, but with his own political slant (you can draw your own conclusions about inclusion and such; and this is where many --like me-- disagree with Goldwater). It wasn't about control or power. Generational, at least.

Individuals obsessed with other individuals, thinking about controlling their own world in order to fit their beliefs within it, and channeling their own hate and frustrations onto others, I'm sure that's clinically certified as an issue, like You-know-who 😉
 
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Gabriel M.A. said:
Oh, btw: don't forget, sociopath Frank G. is watching. We should do more semantical catfights just for his psychotic amusement.
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Dude, you need to get over the Frank G. thing. There are beautiful pictures of pristine landscapes on the site with Goldwater's photos. No doubt taken with a pristine camera. 😀

Oh, I forgot to add a sentence about feeding the trolls, even indirectly...
 
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Gabriel M.A. said:
OK, I may be on to the path to nutability: what light streaming from a tree? I recall having a photo like that (btw, yuck); if you can point me to it, I'll remove it because it's just beyond banal. I do a lot of banal photography just to keep me sane. And I don't say that to be witty; dat be da truth. Word.
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The light streaming from a tree picture was at the Goldwate Photography site, at the bottom of the scroll bar.

And, I'm not REALLY trying to call you a "nutjob", but like Bill I resent it when cetrain people deighn to slam ANYTHING rightward of FDR as nutjobs. Some of us find the Liberals to be a Fascist as you seem to think the Republicans are.

Maybe if people ACTUALLY read the Federalist Papers, the Constitution, etc. they would understand why us libertarians find both the Left and the Right as groups that are infringing upon our liberty.

But, that is a discussion for another forum.

I really enjoyed the link to Barry Goldwater's photo site. Living in the southwest, he had some great subject matter to choose from. Much different from the urban stuff we tend to see here in the northeast.
 
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NickTrop said:
Ah, yes, Goldwater... hater of "The New Deal" that brought this country out of the depression, kept the unwashed masses from starving, and provided for a meager safety net for those of us not born with big fat trust funds from starving to death when capitalism has one of its unfortunate downward cycles after the robber barons (then and now - for "now" Google "Subprime mortgage mess") have finished with their exploitation of us. Whadda guy. Starve the beast!!! (...and feed its "meals" to the industrial-military complex.)

One of two of the "old-school" RWers who were said to "have class" - along with silver spoon born, yacht sailin', Manhattan guzzelin' elitist trust fund baby and skull-n-bones snob"Bill Buckley" extolling the "out of touch" Ayn Randian-virtues of "the human spirit to overcome any and all" and "personal accountability" (but no mention of the enormous wealth he inherited that "assisted" in this regard, providing him with a rather "obstical-less" existance, and which allowed for his "career" as writer of political columns and host of political talk shows)...

... as he fought for segregation, and put forth such intellectual gems as "only the educated should be allowed to vote".

But, I guess, in comparison to the "Glenn Becks" and "Sean Hannitys" and "Bill O'Reillys" of the world today, and the Senator McCarthys of their era, the likes of old-school Goldwater and Buckley did have class, relatively speaking.

But - anyway, a guy who likes to take pics can't be all bad. Even if he is from "the dark side".

Thanks for the link.
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WWII was what brought us out of the depression. Any economist except maybe Paul Krugman will tell you that. You need to read something other thn the New York Times....
 
Al Patterson said:
The light streaming from a tree picture was at the Goldwate Photography site, at the bottom of the scroll bar.
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Oh, that one. Yes, that one's beautiful, for all the seemingly-disparate elements.

And yes, I agree with most of what you said. Polarization is never good for a healthy democracy; only good for coaxing one flavour of power over the other. A polarized country can only result in the exhaustion of its economical, legal, and intellectual resources, to make way for its downfall.

However, that feeling alone can be used as a tool by dictatorial powers.

Which is why I like pie. Hopefully that won't be banned (or hijacked by a political movement) anytime soon. 😉
 
Al Patterson said:
WWII was what brought us out of the depression. Any economist except maybe Paul Krugman will tell you that. You need to read something other thn the New York Times....
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War is the answer - always, innit? 🙂 Er, thank "God" for WWII and its 50 million deaths then, for sparking the economy, "I guess". Actually, I didn't mean to say that the "New Deal" got us out of the depression exclsively, but it did establish safety nets (God forbid!) for those of us not born into wealth, and helped out regular citizens who didn't have enough wealth to be insulated from economic downturns like the Depression. I mean "socialist" New Deal concepts like "the FDIC" are "heinous" I tellya. (Grumble, grumble, why should "my tax dollars" go to insure other people's money?!? If they want to put their money at risk by opening a passbook savings account, it's their business, not mine!) No wonder Goldwater was so against the New Deal!

I'll stick with this country's paper of record for the last 150 years - the Gray Lady, thank you very much. You're welcome to your Rupert Murdoch-owned uh, "papers" and cable "news" networks.

To each his own 🙂

As Roosevelt estutely reminded America, especially the short-sighted wealthy folks who couldn't see beyond the fact that their taxes might go up and they might (shreik) be marginally less rich by some impact-less and imperceptible - lifestyle-wise, amount...

... the New Deal and safety nets - then and now, protects democracy

Democracy has disappeared in several other great nations, not because the people of those nations disliked democracy, but because they had grown tired of unemployment and insecurity, of seeing their children hungry while they sat helpless in the face of government confusion and government weakness through lack of leadership....Finally, in desperation, they chose to sacrifice liberty in the hope of getting something to eat. We in America know that our democratic institutions can be preserved and made to work. But in order to preserve them we need...to prove that the practical operation of democratic government is equal to the task of protecting the security of the people....The people of America are in agreement in defending their liberties at any cost, and the first line of the defense lies in the protection of economic security.


Rossevelt, 1938 radio address...
 
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dexdog said:
There are beautiful pictures of pristine landscapes on the site with Goldwater's photos. No doubt taken with a pristine camera. 😀
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Heh.

The individual portraits are very beautiful; without knowing anything else other than what's stated in the notes, I'd have to say that this reveals a sensitivity about his fellow men, as men, not merely as subjects, as much portrait photography is nowadays.
 
And for us gear heads here - the site even includes a brief description of the equipment and darkroom technique Goldwater the talented phtoographer used.

As for Goldwater the politico, I'm old enough to remember his run but too young to have voted for him. Back then I was living in Texas and that, along with being young, means I probably would have voted for the other guy.

But if Goldwater were around I would probably vote for him before any of the other Senators in the race today. I wonder what he would have made of the likes of our current horde of political "strategists" - at whose feet I lay the shallowness of our current discourse.

Bill, Gabriel, Al, Nick - there's room for all of us. But Al - bashing the NY Times is so 20th century. I'm more libertarian than liberal, and IMO the Times is far more "balanced" than, say, WSJ (I subscribe to both).
 
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