Basics in film processing - Help!

[titrisol]

plastic reels are easy to clean with mom-in-law's ttothbrush

If they are very dirty soak them in warm water, make a paste with baking soda and water and scrub...

 

[pedro.m.reis]

My latest try, yesterday, resulted in the best (IMHO) negs i got so far. I've just done the scan of some negs.

I dont know if this level of grain is acceptable. Please say something.
This is tri-x, rodinal 1:50, 10:30s @22Cº, 5 inversions each 1:30s, 15m agefix.

The picturse in attach have no color or levels correction, either from me or the scanner software(epson). Only a minor unsharp mask.

 

[pedro.m.reis]

Stains were mentioned.

Stains come from chemical residue. This suggests you're using plastic reels and/or not doing sufficiently careful reel cleaning between processing runs.

Plastic reels are hard to clean totally, but if you wash VERY thoroughly, with intense flow of water, between processing runs you will reduce contamination of film by residue.

If you're using somebody else's old plastic reels, that may be part of your problem. Used plastic reels may be impossible to clean adequately, once somebody's used them, let them sit around after failing to clean them carefully enough.

I'd suggest steel reels but a lot of amateurs believe mistakenly that plastic reels are easier to load, due to false advertising that Patterson and others place in low level magazines. Pros virtually always use steel reels, specifically because plastic is actually HARDER to load and difficult to clean. Patterson/Jobo uses plastic only because Patterson/Jobo is a plastics company, not because it's a proper material for the job.

I dont think that is the problem. I'm using a new tank, plastic yes, and i clean it avery time i use it. Maybe not a compleat clean but i dont see any dirt on it. Also i've just develop 10 rolls or so ..

 

[Roman]

Hi,
a few questions:

Do you have scanned examples of the stains? They can have quite different reasons, and also look quite different: clear circles on the negatives (reason: air-bubbles; rap the tank onto the table 2 or 3 times after filling it); white-ish residue on the film base (calcium from too hard water - use demineralized water); greasy-looking, sometimes multicolored or extra-matte stains (residue from Agepon - use less of that - 1 or 2 drops per liter are more than sufficient); uneven densities (lighter and darker stream-lines) coming down from the sprocket holes of the films (reason: wrong agitation - most likely too little). I have been using plastic tanks (A&P and Paterson) ever since I started developing my films myself, and never had any problems caused by them; I don't believe there is any reel (plastic or steel) that is easier to load than an A&P one...

If only single frames on a whole roll of film are too dark or too grainy, and not all of them, this is an exposure problem, not one of development - too dark frame means the picture was overexposed; too grainy pics can come both from overexposed negs, as well as from underexposed ones (because then you have to use harder paper gradations to get enough contrast, and those show grain more than softer ones do); if you are scanning, you might also see scanner artifacts that look like grain.


Roman

 

[eric]

Hi there.
I'm learning to develop my own BW films. But, i'm getting some inconsistent results.

Your processes look okay to me but what exactly "inconsistent" results are you getting? I"ve read the threads and I can't figure out what inconsistency you are getting.

Also, 15 minutes in fix. I'm not familiar with that fixer but that's kinda long. Use rapid fix. pour into container, open container in 15 seconds look at negs, put cap back on. It clears in like 90 seconds. I use Clayton Fixer.

You can call Lowell at Clayton chemistry and he'll tell you straight up, film only needs to be in rapid fix for about 3 minutes.

 

[Roman]

PS: One more thing I just noticed: Did you say that you are using 450ml water + 8.8ml Rodinal (sounds like you are using a Jobo tank, right?) for _TWO_ films? That is too little!!!

Agfa recommends that for every 36-pic film (or 120 roll) there has to be at least 10 ml of pure Rodinal in the working solution - now that might be a bit on the extra-safe side, and 6 or 7 ml might be sufficient for one film (this depends a bit on the film type used, and also on the images taken, as the amount of developer needed depends on how much silver has to be developed), 8.8 ml for two films is definitely too little, and your developer might very well be exhausted before the films are fully developed.

For 2 films you should at least use 20ml of pure Rodinal in your working solution - which means, that you'll either have to switch to 1+25 dilution, or you'll have to get a bigger tank that can take 1 l of 1+50 working solution (for 2 films), or you'll have to develop 1 film at a time in 500ml of 1+50 solution.

Your inconsistent results might very well be caused by this!

Also, I personally love TriX in Rodinal, and APX100 and Rodinal is a match made in heaven - APX400, on the other hand, does not work very well with that developer...

Roman

 

[pedro.m.reis]

PS: One more thing I just noticed: Did you say that you are using 450ml water + 8.8ml Rodinal (sounds like you are using a Jobo tank, right?) for _TWO_ films? That is too little!!!
Roman

No, that is for 1 roll. I've never tried to develop 2 films at a time. For the fix, stop and agepon i do the dilution for the 2 rolls because i reuse it.

 

[TPPhotog]

No, that is for 1 roll. I've never tried to develop 2 films at a time. For the fix, stop and agepon i do the dilution for the 2 rolls because i reuse it.

Rodinal is one shot .... not one to re-use.

 

[djon]

You mentioned "stain." That hints two things: plastic reels and inadequate cleaning of reels between use.

 

[Roman]

Sorry, but repeating it does not make it more right...
Plastic reals don't necessarily lead to stains on film, as millions of users might tell you!
Both plastic and steel reels have their pros and cons, both give equally good results once you have mastered loading them, and choosing between them is more a matter of taste than anything else.

Roman

 

[RObert Budding]

I agree with Roman - I use plastic reels all of the time and I've never had stain problems.

Robert

 

[Poptart]

If you're getting stains, you may need to clean all of your equipment inc. measuring cups in lots of hot soapy water between uses. Fixing for extended times isn't good--use a rapid fixer only for 2X the time it takes the film base to clear--testable yourself. Also, you may try using a water bath (jacket) in which you immerse tanks and chemistry to raise or lower the temp, and to maintain a set temp once you reach it. Lastly, uneven results are very often a result of improper agitation. Learn to agitate properly.

 

[jano]

Bit OT, sorry: why are the metal reels easier to load? When I looked at them at the store.. they looked like they'd easily slip between sweaty hands inside the changing bag. I'm having no problem with the plastic reel (four times now, woo hoo!), which came highly recommended by the two cute girls that sold them to me 😉 I won't tell you what they said about steel reels, wasn't very nice 😛

 

[pedro.m.reis]

If you're getting stains, you may need to clean all of your equipment inc. measuring cups in lots of hot soapy water between uses. Fixing for extended times isn't good--use a rapid fixer only for 2X the time it takes the film base to clear--testable yourself. Also, you may try using a water bath (jacket) in which you immerse tanks and chemistry to raise or lower the temp, and to maintain a set temp once you reach it. Lastly, uneven results are very often a result of improper agitation. Learn to agitate properly.

Ok, got the "must clean the equipment". Now, you say i must learn to agitate. What is the proper way? I've never had classes of darkroom procedures, and all i do is what i 'm reading from the web. I agitate doing inversions, that is, i hold the tank, invert it, wait a milisec and invert it again. Is that the correct way?

 

[Solinar]

Pedro, I'll be everyone has a different technique, which then affects their developing time.

I prefer a single inversion each minute with a swirl at the end. Also, I take the precaution of placing the developing tank back into my temperature bath between agitations.

Welcome to the world of experimental science. Keep good notes on your developing time and dilutions.

 

[Roman]

Pedro, do you have access to a scanner? It is really hard finding out what the problem is without having any visual clues/examples...

Roman

 

[pedro.m.reis]

Pedro, do you have access to a scanner? It is really hard finding out what the problem is without having any visual clues/examples...

Roman

The two pictures i posted above are from my last try.
The worst negs i had, with stains on it, i followed the advice from the local shop and re-fixed them, the stains desapeered but the results were not ok. I'll post an example at night.
Also, i'm scanning the negs, but as you can see by the example, the result of scanning if not so good, i dont know
if is a scanner problem, or if the problem is betwen the chair and the keyboard 🙂

 

[Roman]

Pedro,
yes, I have seen those two pics - but I don't see any stains on them... I have seen finer-grained results from TriX in Rodinal, but on the other hand, it is not that bad/unusual either. The only problems I see are a few dust-spots, and possibly a scratch on the neg (but might also be a scanning artifact) on the second example.
BTW, I took the liberty and gave your scans a quick make-over in PhotoShop, to correct levels and resize them for web-viewing - you won't get around adjusting levels if you want to scan negatives.

Roman

 

[pedro.m.reis]

Ok. I've learned another thing... i must do photoshop make-over 🙂 I thought that a scan of a good neg would give me a good picture without photoshop. Maybe i'm not getting so bad results after all.
I'll go tho the lab with some negs to get them printed and see what comes out....

 

[titrisol]

Pedro, it seems to me your results are pretty good.
It always help to learn to PRINT as well, judging negatives by themselves takes a lot of experience and scanning is not always the best way to judge them.

Keep advancing, you are on the right direction.

Boa sorte!