Battle of Bessa R2 against Nikon D200.

[pizzahut88]

Harlo everyone,

On 11-Dec-06, I have to fotograph my best buddy's wedding.
Had known him since high school.
It'a whole day event, from the morning outdoor ceremony to the banquet at night.

Also at the same event, is another high school friend of mine, Gordon,
He has recently bought a Nikon D200.
And has been recently laughing at me for using RFs.
So he is on my nerve.
Saying how I have been at photography so long, I should have at least spent more money on my camera, at least get a Leica, truth is I can't afford it. Or how I should have kept using DSLRs so forth. As you can see he is je_rk.

The pain is, he is also doing the wedding side by side with me.
Honestly, I do fear his D200, he doesn't know much about photography,
but the D200 could be leathal with all that matrix metering, balanced filled flash so forth, him not knowing a thing about compensation could perhaps get some really decent shots as long as he frame the shot right.

So I want to beat him, and make him pay.
To spend a million bucks on camera doesn't make him a foto god.

I need help with:
(1) learn to fill flash correctly;
(2) recommendations on buying the most economical flash;
(3) what film to use;
(4) wedding tips, both indoor, out-door,
(5) do natural shots, outside the possible creative boundry of a D200,
(6) pitfalls I might encounter, &
(7) tips from RFF pros.
(8) I think I should some more bunnies to purchase one more lens before the wedding, any good lens? Or am I fine with what I have?
These are lenses I now have:
http://manfred-lai.blogspot.com/2006/11/blog-post.html

At the end of the day,
I will make him post his images, and mine,
and I want to smite him so badly,
that he will shut up forever.



Manfred

 

[rover]

You only have one choice,

D2Xs.

Honestly, the skill of the photographer will stand out as the difference in the shots if you insist on a competition. Your tool of choice is just part of the equation.

 

[SteveM(PA)]

somewhere, a couple days ago, I found a portfolio of wedding pics shot with an XA, they were fairly awesome. I'll try to find it.

edit: ok, here it is...
http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00BLzp

 

[IGMeanwell]

If he knows how to use that D200... he will provide some excellent images

but your first problem is not making this about your best buddy and his wedding

Remember these are images that 30 or 50 (we would hope) years from now the couple will be looking back at their special day

you want to provide at least 5 to 10 images (since your splitting the job that is a great goal for special photos) that will absolutely define their moment

Since you have the rangefinder I would concentrate on getting the shots that your friend will be not trying to get ... the shot of a mother watching her daughter marry or the father beaming with pride

maybe a nice shot of the bride looking into her grooms eyes

or ... maybe you can dissolve into the back and shoot a couple wide angle shots that show the ceremony as a whole

your main job is to be able to tell the story of their day (it is their day... more specifically the bride's day)

I love looking at my parent's wedding album; they hired the local wedding photographer (He is still taking photos though not weddings any more) ... they were your typical flash photography wedding shots (1970)

My parents love that it reminds them of the day... however there is not really any emotion or drama ... its just a record (a very good one)


The weddings I have done, well nerve racking but I like to tell the story ... yes I use my DSLR.... but I try to keep to the back be an observer with my primes and use no flash (not always possible)

but again its about the bride, about the bride... repeat about the bride

 

[photogdave]

Don't sweat it. Most likely he'll be standing 30 feet away, blazing through his 4GB CF card with some big telephoto zoom. All his shots will look the same. You can get closer and more intimate, especially during the ceremony where your camera's quietness will be an advantage.
Only worry about flash if you're going to use colour. If the ceremony is indoors, especially in a church, do not use flash at all. Use high speed B&W film like Fuji Neopan 1600.
If there is any way to get your hands on another M mount body, do it so you can shoot color and B&W at the same time. Also consider using a film SLR with TTL flash for color and your RF for B&W.
Don't worry about the dude with the Nikon. Forget he's there. Those guys tend to shoot everything with long lenses anyway, so you probably won't be anywhere near him
One more thought: work together! Get him to cover one angle, or aspect of the wedding, while you shoot the other. Then there is no overlapping, nothing is missed, and you're not stressed out by the "competition". Good luck!

 

[Sparrow]

I always thought there was nothing as terrifying as “doing” a friend’s wedding, sadly I was wrong 20 years on there is doing a friend’s daughters wedding……see not everything improves with experience.

Anyway if you have no experience why not turn up at the same time and venue this weekend and do a dry-run, see where the shortcomings are and address them in time for the big day, a backup body would be a good idea, what light will you have?

 

[Pherdinand]

remember that it's the big day for your friend (the one that is getting married!!!) so don't screw that up for them, for the sake of a competition🙂

 

[ywenz]

If you are the superior photographer, you'll get better images. If you both are on the same level, then his D200 will obviously win out in an event coverage situation..

 

[anselwannab]

Vivitar 285HV for flash. The R2 doesn't have any flash automation, does it?

I would think your best bet would be to try to get some candid/unposed pictures. Shots of the brides Mom during their first dance, sentimental pics of grandparents.

Everyoneis going to put on their plastic grins when they see the D200 and SB600 flash coming at them.

Mark

 

[SteveM(PA)]

Try and get some shots of your friend with his giant camera, shooting the de rigueur pictures...I don't often see shots like that.

I see your role, as a rangefinder photographer, as one of observer, whereas your friend will be just another facet of the landscape you are observing. You, most likely, will blend in.

 

[5nap5hot]

Bring LOTS of film and shoot lots of pictures. The advantage a digital is that he can shoot over 400 images on one card. Make sure you are not stingy on the film.

 

[mich8261]

This is not going to help you beat out your buddy in a wedding shoot out, but I wanted to add that the photographer my wife and I picked for our wedding last year shoots with a (well several) rangefinders. At the time, I knew almost nothing of RF cameras, we picked him based on the sample shots we saw on his website and his sensibility matched ours. At the time I shot exclusively with a DSLR and had been looking for a photog that also shot with a DSLR. In the end, his artistic eye won out. So forget about the fact that you are matched against a technology marvel, pick the right film and remember that Fuji, Kodak and Ilford have invested millions in making this film as advanced technologically as any CCD or CMOS sensor.

Photography is about light and composition. Your pictures can be as beautiful as those taken with the D200.

Have fun and let us know how it turns out.

 

[Roma]

I'd say do what range finder was meant for - people who move a lot to get the "right" shot. You'll have the best camera for candids and most people will be posers for the big gun D200. In the end, he'll get a lot of posed shots, but you can get the special candid photos. I'd use a normal lens and a bunch of film. Get something pushable (like HP5) in case if 400 speed is not enough, make sure to compensate the exposure for the white dress a bit, forget about the competition and shoot, shoot, shoot, move, move, move.

 

[Kin Lau]

Well, North American and European weddings are _very_ different from Hong Kong weddings, so keep that in mind when you read everyone's replies. The "important" moments are quite different depending on the couple and how much of a mix btwn traditional and western the wedding will be.

Will she be serving tea to his parents? Major photog moment with the RF here. If your D200 friend doesn't have a low light lens, you win here.

How many times will she be changing? Be there for each one. Don't be stuck with B&W film if you know she's changing into a red cheongsam/qipao.

Will it'll be a civil ceremony or at a church... I'm guessing that it's civil. Will there be any "walking down the aisle", "bridesmates, groomsmen etc"?

Will there even be a 1st dance?

Let your friend do the table shots as the bride and groom go around, but make sure you capture the interaction with the guests.

Film wise, I like Kodak Portra for colour. Consider Portra VC instead of NC if she's changing into some bright colours.

For a flash, the Vivitar 285 units are good, as are the Sunpak 383's.

Try to have a backup for _everything_, flashes, camera bodies, lenses, batteries. And about twice as much film as you think you'll need.

Harlo everyone,

On 11-Dec-06, I have to fotograph my best buddy's wedding.
Had known him since high school.
It'a whole day event, from the morning outdoor ceremony to the banquet at night.

Also at the same event, is another high school friend of mine, Gordon,
He has recently bought a Nikon D200.
And has been recently laughing at me for using RFs.
So he is on my nerve.
Saying how I have been at photography so long, I should have at least spent more money on my camera, at least get a Leica, truth is I can't afford it. Or how I should have kept using DSLRs so forth. As you can see he is je_rk.

The pain is, he is also doing the wedding side by side with me.
Honestly, I do fear his D200, he doesn't know much about photography,
but the D200 could be leathal with all that matrix metering, balanced filled flash so forth, him not knowing a thing about compensation could perhaps get some really decent shots as long as he frame the shot right.

So I want to beat him, and make him pay.
To spend a million bucks on camera doesn't make him a foto god.

I need help with:
(1) learn to fill flash correctly;
(2) recommendations on buying the most economical flash;
(3) what film to use;
(4) wedding tips, both indoor, out-door,
(5) do natural shots, outside the possible creative boundry of a D200,
(6) pitfalls I might encounter, &
(7) tips from RFF pros.
(8) I think I should some more bunnies to purchase one more lens before the wedding, any good lens? Or am I fine with what I have?
These are lenses I now have:
http://manfred-lai.blogspot.com/2006/11/blog-post.html

At the end of the day,
I will make him post his images, and mine,
and I want to smite him so badly,
that he will shut up forever.



Manfred

 

[drewbarb]

The better photographer will win the competition, so don't worry about that part of it- just get the best pictures you can. Remember what you are there for, and ignore the jer_rk with the intimidating camera- that intimidation is all inyour head, anyway.

As many folks have mentioned, he'll more likely be getting the more genric shots with his big DSLR- the long tele style "shoot first and edit later" approach produces the same shots as everyone else who works that way, esp. the the people who don't know much about photography. People who assume it's all about the camera show how little they know about photography. And as someone else mentioned, he will get a lot of poeple posing for him- they'll see him coming a mile away with his big, professional looking camera. Where-as if you are good, you will get good moments others will miss, and probably not be noticed.

The most important thing to remember is that if you work hard to observe well, position yourself well, anticipate the action, and pay attention to your surroundings, you will get the shots that made them want you to shoot the job in the first place. If you worry- about anything- it will distract you from doing what you know how to do. Good luck, and let us know how it goes!

 

[scottgee1]

somewhere, a couple days ago, I found a portfolio of wedding pics shot with an XA, they were fairly awesome. I'll try to find it.

edit: ok, here it is...
http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00BLzp

Actually, these were shot with a Stylus Epic. Mr. Liu recently acquired an XA.

Both, of course, are fine cameras.

FWIW/ScottGee1

 

[Davor]

Instead of uploading to a website, get together with him and share prints. Make sure you blow up the good ones.

 

[RObert Budding]

Lots of good advice here.

Generally I'd stay clear of your friend with his D200. But only because I'd want to capture images that he does not have covered. If he gravitates towards the bride, then you should gravitate towards guests or family members. Get shots that complement the D200 shots. No reason to capture the same images on two different cameras.

I don't think it's fair to assume that everyone carrying a D200 will just blast away and produce generic shots. I shoot a D200. And a Contax iiia. And a Bronica RF645. And a Crown Graphic. But maybe I produce generic shots with all cameras regardless of the technology 😉

 

[f8&go]

Your wedding pix look nice!

Concentrate on doing what you do well and what is best
for the B & G, even if that means teaming up with &
dividing duties with the other photog.

Scout the site in advance for lighting especially but also for
angles, obstructions, lines of sight & logistics.

The two sentences above mean you arrive prepared & with a plan.

If you are not familiar with flash & compensated flash practice with
it first, you've got three weeks. Regarding flash: off-camera flash
is best, diffused flash is necessary at near distances and sync cords
are notorious for failure so have TWO back-ups.

IGMeanwell & Kin Lau offer much wisdom.

I wish you the best & a lovely day of photography.

 

[Gary R]

I would have to agree that you should team up and share duties with the other photographer. Don't let the competition ruin your shooting or the wedding. Although you want to make this guy shut up, and it does sound like he needs to, see if you can put aside your differences and shoot together. This will make things much easier for you and relieve you of the burden of feeling like you have to get all the shots yourself.