Be gentle!: 4 NOOKY questions

[mobius981]

Shaking my head to have to post this because of the title🙄! Ah well, I will suffer the consequences😱 in the name of Higher Ed...

Just need a little newbie help.

I just purchased a NOOKY for my Elmar 50/3.5, attached to my IIIc.

1. NOOKY attached to camera body very cleanly. Lens was collapsed, attached to NOOKY but doesn't seem to be fully collapsed all by itself. In other words, it will collapse completely if I push it to collapse but the lens will extend slightly if I pull on it.

Is this typical for the lens to vary slightlyneed to be "pushed back" slightly while on NOOKY? I assume if so it should be completely collapsed regardless...

2. The Leica Manual says on page 168: "The rectangular frame in front of the view finder provides an automatic compensation for parallax and the reduced field of view necessary for closeups". Question: Mine has no glass, it is an empty rectangle...is this correct or should it have glass in it?

3. Again per the Manual (aka Leica Bible), "it is important to stop down the aperture of the lenses to f/4.5 or f/6.3 to increase the depth of field". Well, the Elmar doesn't have the f/4.5 or f/6.3 marked. So now I feel rather clueless. Where do you leave the aperture on your lenses with this equipment? f/5.6? Do you/can you vary it at all?

4. Do you place the focus on the Elmar lens itself to infinity? And then I suppose use the focus on the NOOKY device itself. BTW, it seems to be focusing nicely with the ORAKO device being used! And the rangefinder is quite clear looking thru the rangefinder on the back of the camera.


Any and all help much appreciated!! Thanks so much! (I am easily confused...lol)

 

[David Hughes]

Hi,

I'm not quite sure about your first question. The Elmar removes from the camera and, in the collapsed position, the bit with the bayonet fittings then goes into the NOOKY. The focussing scale is then loose around the lenses' tube.

2, there's no glass in the frame it just masks the view-finder.

3, f/6.3 and so on are the older Elmar's markings. Sometimes called Continental, sometimes called German. Standardised later at f/5.6 then f/8 etc with f/6.3 between them.

4, You can't focus the lens itself as the scale is no longer used.

My old NOOKY on the model 2 looks like this:

Hope that helps; over the years there were several versions of the lens and NOOKY and I'm wondering which ones you have. A photo would help.

Regards, David

 

[Timmyjoe]

David, That's a beautifully clean set up you have there. Looks brand new.

 

[mdarnton]

If your lens moves freely you may be mounting it wrong. The lens is collapsed and the bayonet on the back of the lens tube itself bayonets into the nooky and then is should be secure and not pull in and out. The normal focus mount just floats on the tube, useless, since it's the nooky that does the focusing.

If you look closely, as you focus you'll see a little mask towards the back on one edge and top of the "glassless" viewing frame moving in as you focus closer. This is the framing and parallax correction at work.

 

[summar]

There's a good video on YouTube showing proper attachment of a NOOKY:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8xgPUiECmA

 

[mobius981]

Ok and continued thanks for your help!!!

First pic: IIIc with close up and lens. Second: Lens. Third: NOOKY

 

[mobius981]

These two pictures show the barrel of the Elmar pushed (closed) towards camera body/nooky and then pulled slightly away from camera body/nooky. Barrel of lens, then, is sliding forward and back, about 3/16 inch or so. I was asking if this was normal, or does it even matter? The part that is moving back and forth is the focusing ring, the lens itself is solid, as is the NOOKY. I am just trying to be so cautious until I get it right, I love these tiny gems of engineering...

 

[mdarnton]

That's the focus mount and it's normal. The lens barrel is attached to the lens....it's the tube with glass in it which is why it's called the lens barrel, not the focus barrel. 🙂

 

[mobius981]

Q #1: Focusing ring moving is normal. Got it.
Q #2: No glass in rangefinder/parallax correction. Check.
Q #4: Youtube advice says set lens to infinity. Very good! Thanks.

 

[sreed2006]

Number 3, if what they are saying does not explain anything to you, then it would be helpful to learn about three subjects: f/stop, aperture, and depth of field. Those are the basic subjects on how to set the aperature to take pictures of flat objects, like postage stamps, or 3-dimensional objects, like a green beetle on a red rose).

There are books that explain all three of these basic subjects, and web sites that give great definitions and explanations of them. Here is the Wikipedia page that explains them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-number

Once you know that, you will know where to set the f/stop on your lens even though the markings are different than what is specified in the Manual, and whether it can be varied (spoiler alert: it can be varied, and being able to do so provides a useful tool in matching the f/stop to the depth of the subject and how much light is available).

 

[David Hughes]

Hi,

When the lens is connected to the body in the normal way the bit of the lens that you pull out fixes into the focusing scale and then moves backwards and forwards with it to focus, obviously.

When you use the NOOKY it (the lens barrel) passes through the loose focussing scale and fixes into the NOOKY. The NOOKY focuses from just over a metre to 44cm or a little over 17¼" from the film plane. The distance is given as 44cm in metric.

They don't mark the film plane on the IIIc's top plate and my guess is a mm or two from the back. So they suggest a small aperture for safety, meaning a fudge.

Your next problem will be working out the exposure. Cheat by using a digital camera with spot metering and close up focussing...

In my first answer I said that f/6.3 is halfway between f/5.6 and f/8 but that's only rough. The problem is that it is on the old scale which is 2/3rds out of step with the standardised scale (which starts at f/1). But as the scale on the lens isn't linear you just have to guess. Your film has enough latitude to stop you worrying about this, perhaps; look on the DX marks or the maker's leaflet. You can read about them (old and new aperture scales) on Wikipedia.

Have fun, David

 

[johannielscom]

Another question, I see those going over the internet marked 'Elmar', but also marked 'Hektor, Summar, Summitar'.

Is there any difference, does it really matter what lens you stick on what engraving? And if so, why does that matter? 50mm is 50mm, right?

 

[mobius981]

Thank you all. I was afraid I was asking stupid questions, but I believe I just raised the bar on my IIIc by moving into close-up work, and got really confused!!

Johan, I don't know the ultimate technical answer to your question, but I do know that Leitz made at least four of these close-up devices: NOOKY, NOOKY-HESUM, SOOKY and SOMKY. No wonder it is confusing as at least the first two were intended for use with the LTM, of course but all were specialized for/with different lenses. All I can think is that Leitz may have had a good reason (focusing, f/stop accuracy?), but it beats me what it is. MOst likely the really good technical experts here could answer this cause I would like to know too. I do not think they are interchangeable.

So in Leitz's infinite wisdom, each new lens purchase requires specific apparatus dedicated to that particular lens especially in terms of LTM to M mount adaptors, as well as close up devices, lens hoods (sometimes to exclude FIKUS) and view finders for LTMs (excluding mostly the VIOOH). Arg!
But fascinating.

 

[Luddite Frank]

Another question, I see those going over the internet marked 'Elmar', but also marked 'Hektor, Summar, Summitar'.

Is there any difference, does it really matter what lens you stick on what engraving? And if so, why does that matter? 50mm is 50mm, right?

I believe the bayonet lugs on the inner end of the lens-tube and the diameter of the lens tube are slightly different between the various 50mm lenses... thus the different variants of NOOKY, etc.

 

[David Hughes]

Thank you all. I was afraid I was asking stupid questions, but I believe I just raised the bar on my IIIc by moving into close-up work, and got really confused!!

Johan, I don't know the ultimate technical answer to your question, but I do know that Leitz made at least four of these close-up devices: NOOKY, NOOKY-HESUM, SOOKY and SOMKY. No wonder it is confusing as at least the first two were intended for use with the LTM, of course but all were specialized for/with different lenses. All I can think is that Leitz may have had a good reason (focusing, f/stop accuracy?), but it beats me what it is. Most likely the really good technical experts here could answer this cause I would like to know too. I do not think they are interchangeable.

So in Leitz's infinite wisdom, each new lens purchase requires specific apparatus dedicated to that particular lens especially in terms of LTM to M mount adaptors, as well as close up devices, lens hoods (sometimes to exclude FIKUS) and view finders for LTMs (excluding mostly the VIOOH). Arg!
But fascinating.

Hi,

The original Elmar, Summar and Summitar are all different sizes, getting bigger (longer) as they matured. So the NOOKY or Near Focus Optical Device has to be different for each lens. It just adds to the fun... (Assuming you like worrying, spending money and wondering.)

As for the 39mm thread to M bayonet adapters, there are really just three versions for the M2's 35mm, 50mm and 90mm lenses, then they started doubling up the frame lines in the M4 and later ones so you get a second bunch of the basic three with different labels on the front. But you can write on them with a felt tip pen if you want to use the M2 versions on the M6 f'instance.

To add to the confusion there's a version made by Voigtländer, and plain and labelled versions from heaven only knows where. I've listed them in order of price, dearest first.

To add to the confusion (2), there are people on forums (sobs) who suggest modifications to the adapters to make the right or wrong frame-lines appear in the M series cameras. So you can buy second-hand adapters labelled (say) 35m and they bring up the wrong frame-lines.

So you have a wide choice and a lot of opportunities to go wrong. Luckily, there are people in China who understand this and make sets of the three that work, your problem is to find them after ignoring the fools who tell you all Chinese stuff is duff.

As for viewfinders, the USSR made - by KMZ - ones are really nice and cheap, just make sure you get the right one that doesn't cover the shutter speed dial.

Or you can get the early Leitz one and wonder how they ever decided to make it that way...

Regards, David

PS I think at this point you ought to invest in a couple of the Hove Foto books covering (A) the cameras and lenses and (B) the accessories. They are cheap for what you get and the frustration you'll be saved, to say nothing of the money when buying bits and pieces.

PPS (EDIT) I forgot the Visoflex / 135mm adapter for the M3 but let's keep this simple...

 

[mobius981]

Fortunately I have the VIOOH (which seems to work nicely with the 35 Summaron, wondering if VIOOH would work with the M3 or would it be sacrilege) and FIKUS for my IIIc, purchased long ago so I can't remember the hit to my wallet. Thanks! for the reference to the Hove books, sounds like it would be up my alley...and I did recently obtain the 3 LTM to M adaptors, Leitz, for $40-$50 apiece, sigh, fondly known as ISOOZ, ISBOO and IRZOO. Now, debating should I get a VOOLA for my 5cm/f3.5 Elmar? lol...

Seriously, thank you again...and no Visoflex elaboration? Wah!

 

[David Hughes]

...and no Visoflex elaboration? Wah!

Hi,

Anything to oblige; it's a sort of PLOOT...

Regards, David

 

[mobius981]

😀 hahaha!!!!

 

[Luddite Frank]

PLOOT is my favorite Leica telegraph code... 😀

 

[hlockwood]

Hey, this is a really a fun thread. I have no idea what you guys are talking about. My first Leica was an M7 and that was followed by an M9-P.

When I see the word NOOKY, I don't think of photography. 😀

HFL